What Lucas said to Connie in Series 7 is what always gets me.

"I spent eight years in a Russian cell. Eight years because I stayed loyal to my country. I still chew it over, when I'm lying awake at 3am wondering was it worth it. But yes, it was. Because I look at you with all your brilliance, and all your treachery, and I see everything I've ever fought against."

And this is why I have trouble believing that Lucas would just turn without some damn good reason!!

Well said, BravoNine. We're all struggling with this.

Even though they have thrown out hints and questions about Lucas' loyalty I have felt he has squashed each hint with loyalty, bravery and everything else required. I have never had a further question about him since the episode where he went back to Russia to help clear Harry who was being accused of treason.

What more loyalty (and I felt some sort of affection for Harry) could Lucas show than to have the courage to go back to Russia to save Harry when there was a good chance he could be picked up and end up back in a Russian prison again. It would have been a terrifying experience and you could see how nervous Lucas was in the taxi ride from the airport. Lucas took the biggest risk of anyone to save Harry and that was not the action of a traitor.

(24-10-2010 11:55 AM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  Even though they have thrown out hints and questions about Lucas' loyalty I have felt he has squashed each hint with loyalty, bravery and everything else required. I have never had a further question about him since the episode where he went back to Russia to help clear Harry who was being accused of treason.

What more loyalty (and I felt some sort of affection for Harry) could Lucas show than to have the courage to go back to Russia to save Harry when there was a good chance he could be picked up and end up back in a Russian prison again. It would have been a terrifying experience and you could see how nervous Lucas was in the taxi ride from the airport. Lucas took the biggest risk of anyone to save Harry and that was not the action of a traitor.

I totally agree!
During season 7 and 8 there were quite a number of occasions when he proved his loyalty, but really the most outstanding one was him returning to Russia in order to save Harry.
Lucas as a traitor or as someone who's dishonest, ruthless and evil makes no sense whatsoever when you look at the way he behaved in the previous series. I only hope the writers of series 9 bothered to watch Spooks 7 and 8 to do some character studies in preparation for their job.

I'm hopeful of a great twist, may not come to S10.1, but I'm really hoping it's there somewhere.

(24-10-2010 04:50 PM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  

(24-10-2010 11:55 AM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  Even though they have thrown out hints and questions about Lucas' loyalty I have felt he has squashed each hint with loyalty, bravery and everything else required. I have never had a further question about him since the episode where he went back to Russia to help clear Harry who was being accused of treason.

What more loyalty (and I felt some sort of affection for Harry) could Lucas show than to have the courage to go back to Russia to save Harry when there was a good chance he could be picked up and end up back in a Russian prison again. It would have been a terrifying experience and you could see how nervous Lucas was in the taxi ride from the airport. Lucas took the biggest risk of anyone to save Harry and that was not the action of a traitor.

I totally agree!
During season 7 and 8 there were quite a number of occasions when he proved his loyalty, but really the most outstanding one was him returning to Russia in order to save Harry.
Lucas as a traitor or as someone who's dishonest, ruthless and evil makes no sense whatsoever when you look at the way he behaved in the previous series. I only hope the writers of series 9 bothered to watch Spooks 7 and 8 to do some character studies in preparation for their job.

EXACTLY!!

Lucas went back to Moscow, the place where he was last captured and sentenced to a hell hole for 8 years, the place filed with nothing but horrible memories, simply because Harry ASKED him to, because Harry needed him to. He didn't whine, he didn't hesitate. Harry asked him to and he was going to do it. If it meant risking his life and sanity, he was still willing to do it. This is NOT the act of a person who is treacherous and evil!

And not only that, Lucas ran around the London at the end of Series 7, even taking a bullet for the team, to make sure that everyone would be safe. He could have left Ros and Connie on their own, he didn't have to risk his own life and safety to protect them, yet he did. He took a bullet, he distracted the FSB kill squad. He stood up to the kill squad with his head held high, not afraid to die. This is again NOT what a traitor would do, nor what a traitor would risk.

And let's not forget the situation with Oleg Dasharvain. Lucas could have unraveled and gone a million different ways, he could have turned and run, but he didn't. He stood strong, he stood up to Oleg, and he did his job despite the damages to his own psyche. He didn't turn traitor, he didn't let Oleg use him. He came through for the team and turned the tables on Oleg. If he can do that to the man who tortured him for years, then surely he can do it to Vaughn, no matter what secret Vaughn is holding over Lucas's head!

And again, when Lucas and Dimitri were inside the Chinese embassy, Lucas once again risked his own life as a distraction so Dimitri can get out with the information. He risked his safety even though he knew that there is a chance that he may not get out. He put the good of the mission and the safety of his teammate first before his own life. THIS is NOT what a traitor would do.

And there is plenty more examples of Lucas's bravery and loyalty shown throughout the 3 series. I simply CANNOT see this treachery that they are trying to make Lucas do. Just WHAT possible secret from 15 years ago that could have Lucas so terrified? WHAT possible secret that has Lucas think that Harry would condemn him even after his years of loyalty?

Lucas is MI5 through and through, he said it himself! MI5 is his HOME, he would never betray them!!! He wouldn't do that to this team, not after losing Ros and Jo.

I think that linking up with Maya again has unhinged him. He's not a traitor, but he is (currently) betraying his team to cover his butt, and digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. Until we know what happened in Africa (speculation: civilian deaths) it's a hard call on this. His character in 7 and 8 was fastidiously loyal, if a little unorthodox. If there's no twist at the end of this, then it's a character assassination and a betrayal of Spooks fans.

(24-10-2010 08:04 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  I think that linking up with Maya again has unhinged him. He's not a traitor, but he is (currently) betraying his team to cover his butt, and digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself.

I guess what has me confused is that HOW could just seeing a picture of Maya unhinge him? If he can survive through Elizabeta, Oleg Dasharvain, and Sarah Caulfield, what is it about Maya that could turn him into an idiot with no brain function? WHAT is it about her that can turn him into a traitor? The writers have not given me one good reason why Maya is worth it, and until they do, I am not gonna believe that a loyal soldier of MI5 for more than a decade is just gonna throw it all away for a former flame of 15 years ago.

Unless they tell me that Lucas is suffering from multiple-personality disorder.....

(24-10-2010 08:04 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  Until we know what happened in Africa (speculation: civilian deaths) it's a hard call on this.

I still don't think that Harry would have punished or be so harsh to Lucas for something that happened 15 years ago. Harry may be stubborn, but he is also a fair man who understands when hard choices are being made. Surely after all those years of loyalty to MI5, Harry would try to understand Lucas and what happened 15 years ago, and not immediately just throw him into prison. I simply don't understand WHAT could be so terrible that he fears Harry would know? I mean, did Lucas kill Harry's dog? His family? His friends?

(24-10-2010 08:04 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  His character in 7 and 8 was fastidiously loyal, if a little unorthodox. If there's no twist at the end of this, then it's a character assassination and a betrayal of Spooks fans.

Exactly this!

If they continue to end with Lucas being evil and treacherous, then they have not only betrayed the character and RA, but also the fans. Lucas may have toed the lines often, but he ALWAYS came through when MI5 and Harry needed him. If he is not redeemed, then they simply ruined what is an amazing character.

They OWE it to the fans, the character, and RA to make this a GOOD ending.

I disagree, I think a lot of the opinions being expressed here are from RA fans right? That makes you slightly biased, perhaps you are angry about what's being done to RA rather than what's being done to Lucas?

Spooks needs people to turn bad and have mysterious backgrounds, it helps the show and provides a great story arc that lasts a whole series. The Lucas thing is perhaps the best example of this being done so far.

Surely as RA fans you'd welcome this storyline as a chance for RA to show a different side to the character and show his talent?

(25-10-2010 12:39 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  I disagree, I think a lot of the opinions being expressed here are from RA fans right? That makes you slightly biased, perhaps you are angry about what's being done to RA rather than what's being done to Lucas?

I am not being angry about what's been done to RA. In fact, nothing's been done to RA that I see of. He seems happy.

If I am biased, then it's because I am a Lucas fan first and always. And I care deeply about what Lucas has to go through. And I think it's a little biased to just assume that fans here are angry simply because of RA.

If RA leaves, that's fine with me, it's the nature of this show, people leave and I understand, but how they choose to exit Lucas as a character means A LOT to me. Because frankly, I invested a LONG time into this character and I do not want to see him getting a silly exit that is going to ruin one of the best things about Lucas North, his sense of duty and loyalty.

(25-10-2010 12:39 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  Spooks needs people to turn bad and have mysterious backgrounds, it helps the show and provides a great story arc that lasts a whole series. The Lucas thing is perhaps the best example of this being done so far.

Not everyone has to turn bad and have mysterious backgrounds for a show to have a great arc for a character. Plenty of shows have great stories without it. Perhaps I would be more accepting of Lucas's "treachery" if I was given something to see just how amazing Maya is that would cause Lucas to turn or what Vaughn is holding over Lucas's head. Perhaps if I see a good reason, then I can accept why a man who never turned on his country through 8 years of torture throws it all away in a span of seconds.

And honestly, this constant barrage of questioning Lucas's loyalty is getting rather tiresome. Why can't we point the finger at someone else for a change? Why is that it has to be Lucas who is mysterious and bad?

I watched 2 series of Lucas North risking everything for Queen and Country and now I'm suppose to believe that he would turn on the team without a second thought? That's to me like saying Harry is evil and is heading a large conspiracy group to take down government.

If Harry became evil, would you be excited and thrilled about the storyline without constantly questioning why or how when you've seen Harry being so loyal and good?

(25-10-2010 12:39 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  Surely as RA fans you'd welcome this storyline as a chance for RA to show a different side to the character and show his talent?

I would welcome it if it makes sense to me, and there is no doubt of RA's great talents. But however, this story DOESN'T make sense to me other than making me think that Lucas has lost whatever shred that is left of his sanity and decided to become an idiot.

I can accept the storyline if they just give me reasons of why, but right now, all those reasons are not there because they are keeping everything so secret and guarded, so it frustrates me because I simply don't see why Lucas who has always been loyal would do this.