(15-11-2010 02:20 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  

(14-11-2010 07:09 PM)Aria Wrote:  Even though I am not the biggest Lucas fan, season 9 loses something by invalidating the entire Lucas backstory.

It is really interesting to read the comments of less enthusiastic fans of Lucas.
I hated the storyline because I'm a huge Lucas fan and the writers destroyed the character completely. But I keep question whether I'm biased because of my love for the character.

Lucas was never my favorite character and I, also, think season 9 was compromised because of the unplausibility of Lucas/John story line. The s9 writers destroyed the work of the s7 and s8 writers. If I'd been one of the writer from the earlier two seasons, I'd be seriously pissed off.

(15-11-2010 03:51 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  

(15-11-2010 02:20 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  

(14-11-2010 07:09 PM)Aria Wrote:  Even though I am not the biggest Lucas fan, season 9 loses something by invalidating the entire Lucas backstory.

It is really interesting to read the comments of less enthusiastic fans of Lucas.
I hated the storyline because I'm a huge Lucas fan and the writers destroyed the character completely. But I keep question whether I'm biased because of my love for the character.

Lucas was never my favorite character and I, also, think season 9 was compromised because of the unplausibility of Lucas/John story line. The s9 writers destroyed the work of the s7 and s8 writers. If I'd been one of the writer from the earlier two seasons, I'd be seriously pissed off.

There are couple in there from S7 and S8. David Farr wrote 7.6, 8.4 and 9.2. Richard McBrien wrote 7.4, 8.5, and 9.3. Of course you all know that 9.2 and 9.3 were both directed by Simon Canton Jones who, in an early interview, said that he didn't really "get" the Maya/John storyline which I thought showed in his direction. For me, it looked like didn't know what to do with it except to make the shots look really pretty and symbolic. I now wonder if he didn't so much side-line it as David Farr and Richard McBrien? Just speculation....

I have not been a emotionally connected to Lucas, either. Although, ironically, I have been appreciative of RA's other work prior to Spooks. I have always felt/thought that there was something else going on. I think Lucas suffered this series from under-development in previous series. In addition, when the producers/writers decided to go with such a huge departure from the Lucas they had (under) written thus far, they over stretched and it took that much more for me to try to connect the dots. While the Lucas theme is intertwined with the main theme, the Lucas story took over and over shadowed the over-all theme as they affect all of the characters collectively thus sending the series slightly out of whack. In that, they did fail. Once I put it aside, I was able to see the rest. Sad, really, because so much else is so wonderful. Which is the only reason the series was not ruined for me. IMO, of course.

All that said, I do agree with what has been said here before that they would have better served the programme as a whole if they had worked from his known past. It would have done just as well.

(14-11-2010 09:50 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  

(14-11-2010 07:29 PM)Kazters Wrote:  i sort of agree aria i mean they do ignore everything we have come to trust and like about the charactor! but we never did get much back story for him i sort of hoped we would get that this series

And I think that's the whole point. As viewers, you build up an affinity with a certain character, you invest your emotions with them, "ride with them" with their victories and failures, and it's irrelevant whether or not you're a "fan" of the actor/actress involved. It's the CHARACTER that ropes you in, and in two series Lucas was set up as trustworthy and loyal, okay with a few flaws and slightly maverick tendencies, but hey, that's what made him Lucas.

To trash all that, even under the banner of a courageous storyline (which it is), really cheats the viewer.

[Adding an edit] I'm trying to stop clutching at straws about Lucas's survival. In one of RA's interviews, he said he'd like a "quiet" death for the character, and Kudos would've had to have discussed this with him around the time of the interview (or before). As much as I'd love an escape for him, and I WOULD, I do think Lucas stepped off the roof. But (as posted elsewhere) a scream and a car alarm don't mean a body. There were the footsteps (...Bo picks up the packet of straws...)

I totaly agree with you, BoHenley, think there were a lot of viewers who invested in Lucas and the writers stepped on our heart and soul (to put it a bit dramatic) by making him into this totally unbelievable character, wich we got absolutly no believable background for! I also think they didn't saw the previous seasons or they ignored them completly!
I wonder what you mean by 'there were footsteps'! I want some straws to clutch on too!

(15-11-2010 04:28 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  There are couple in there from S7 and S8. David Farr wrote 7.6, 8.4 and 9.2. Richard McBrien wrote 7.4, 8.5, and 9.3. Of course you all know that 9.2 and 9.3 were both directed by Simon Canton Jones who, in an early interview, said that he didn't really "get" the Maya/John storyline which I thought showed in his direction. For me, it looked like didn't know what to do with it except to make the shots look really pretty and symbolic. I now wonder if he didn't so much side-line it as David Farr and Richard McBrien? Just speculation....

Poor David Farr must have been furious to see his awesome 8.4 script get undermined with all this crazy John/Maya stuff! And even his 7.6 was pretty damn good in the middle of the Sugarhorse storyline.

9.2 and 9.3 both had very little John/Maya, Thank God! One has to wonder if these two writers were also trying to wrap their heads around this crazy monstrosity that is Lucas-Is-John, no wonder I felt like the Lucas/John stuff always seemed rather added in at the end.

I guess if their own writers and crew were confused, it's not shocking why this storyline seemed to have confused itself!

(14-11-2010 09:50 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  [Adding an edit] I'm trying to stop clutching at straws about Lucas's survival. In one of RA's interviews, he said he'd like a "quiet" death for the character, and Kudos would've had to have discussed this with him around the time of the interview (or before). As much as I'd love an escape for him, and I WOULD, I do think Lucas stepped off the roof. But (as posted elsewhere) a scream and a car alarm don't mean a body. There were the footsteps (...Bo picks up the packet of straws...)

Well, I suppose suicide is quiet compared to some of the other characters' exits...but hold on to your packet of straws! No body = hope (however small...sigh)

(15-11-2010 05:07 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  Poor David Farr must have been furious to see his awesome 8.4 script get undermined with all this crazy John/Maya stuff! And even his 7.6 was pretty damn good in the middle of the Sugarhorse storyline.

I guess if their own writers and crew were confused, it's not shocking why this storyline seemed to have confused itself!

What even prompted them to come up with this series?? They a) took an extremely loyal and well-liked character & ruined his whole image, b) threw in a random girl nobody really understood (or even cared much for...?), keeping in line with this Lucas/John-must-have-girl-problems theme, c) were NOT sparing with the distribution of plot holes, and d) completely confused their crew, writers, and audience.

I sincerely hope s10 can pull back from this... (what's an appropriate word?) debacle of a season! I have a total urge to discredit s9 and try and keep the golden image of Lucas alive in my head....the character was enjoyable and he deserved a better exit, bottom line.

(15-11-2010 11:36 PM)KitKat385 Wrote:  What even prompted them to come up with this series??

New writers, that's what happened....new writers took over and this series went speeding into a comet!

(15-11-2010 11:36 PM)KitKat385 Wrote:  I have a total urge to discredit s9 and try and keep the golden image of Lucas alive in my head....the character was enjoyable and he deserved a better exit, bottom line.

Well, if it makes you and BoHenley feel better, there's always my fanfic version of what really happens in Series 9......you can have that as your canon version of how Lucas's storyline deserved to go!

(16-11-2010 01:23 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  New writers, that's what happened....new writers took over and this series went speeding into a comet!

New writers that have hopefully realized the complete and utter chaos they caused...? Aka the same ones that better be off repenting right now

(16-11-2010 01:23 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Well, if it makes you and BoHenley feel better, there's always my fanfic version of what really happens in Series 9......you can have that as your canon version of how Lucas's storyline deserved to go!

Ooh....alright, I'll bite It is under the Fanfiction forum?

How much better would it have been if the writers had picked up on the trauma of Lucas's incarceration, torture and interrogation by the Russians - and the affects that had on Lucas's mental health and stability? If they'd researched it sensitively and well (from War survivors) - what an impact they could make on people's perceptions - even of our current War veterans returning home. Even "Returning Home" is so difficult for so many of them as it was for Lucas (7.2, I think).

They could've made people THINK, and still tied it up with Lucas going over the top. I'd hoped Albany was a "trigger word" for Lucas, but sadly it wasn't to be (okay, it was interesting, nonetheless).

Are there smileys for a "huge sigh" and a "wasted chance"?

I read a comment recently on a blog for this show along the lines that season 9 was fan fiction and that Lucas had died in the explosion with Ros at the end of season 8. I'm prepared to go along with this

(16-11-2010 10:40 AM)binkie Wrote:  I read a comment recently on a blog for this show along the lines that season 9 was fan fiction and that Lucas had died in the explosion with Ros at the end of season 8. I'm prepared to go along with this

If only......

So at the end of 9.7, why didn't Lucas believe Harry and come in?
Vaughn was dead, there was no one to contradict his version of the events. He'd survive 8 years of torture so I don't think MI5 interrogation would have made him tell the truth. He'd have probably lost his job with MI5 but he would have had Maya.