I've been thinking about that, and I think she meant it in a more literal sense than we all took it to mean. She was probably referring to the fact that they were able to continue working together, despite Ruth's rejection of Harry's proposal. They didn't revert to one of them leaving so that they won't have to face each other after that. In that sense, I guess, it was a mature handling of their situation.

I took NW's choice of the word "mature" to mean the content was of, for or pertaining to the adult scope as opposed to the meaning of "mature" as in bringing the story to full development or fruition. In contrast to "immature" as in puerile, inexperienced or naive which their relationship is certainly not.

*waves*

Just catching up.

(02-12-2010 09:52 AM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  Don't talk about re-watching it! It's off bbc iplayer and not yet on dvd and I'm definitely getting withdrawal symptoms now!

DogSoSmall, do what I do, if you get desperate. Get an itunes account and download the episodes onto your PC. Even if you have not got an iphone, you can still watch the episodes on your computer. Failing that, and you want the episodes on a disc, send me a PM.

(03-12-2010 02:34 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  

(03-12-2010 11:29 AM)Belle Wrote:  Maybe Ruth ment, when she said 'we couldn't be closer than we are now', that because of the work they do and all the grief they share (for colleagues, for the evil in the world,..) they have a bond wich goes very deep and is very strong and if they would resign and just be together, maybe she is scared that that bond would be lost?

Anyhoo, to be the pedant that I am, the actual line is "We couldn't be more together than we are right now." I think the distinction is important because she isn't questioning their closeness. That is there. That has always been there and will continue to be. IMO, (and with 20/20 hindsight of the whole of S9) what she is questioning is the complicated nature of their connection. It is a connection so tied up in the personal and professional that they cannot be disconnected without one or the other suffering. And she doesn't want either to suffer. One must remember that at that moment, she thinks he is going to resign. She doesn't know that he retracted it. So, to her mind, he is asking her to change the natural habitat of their relationship.

I do agree that she isn't questioning their "closeness," because if she was, then surely they HAVE been more together. Were they not closer in S4 and S5 than S8 and S9? With regards to their professional relationship, I believe that relationship IS closer than it was before Ruth left. Ruth has become Harry's second in command almost.

That scene is so sad for me because of Harry's face when she says it. He looks so devastated like a small boy who has lost all hope. I can just imagine him saying in his head, "But... I want you Ruth. I love you. Don't let me go."

(04-12-2010 10:02 AM)Silktie Wrote:  I think she may actually have known by then that he's not resigning. The discussion before she gives her little spiel is about how he's decided to offer Beth a job. That's a very clear indication to her that he's staying, because if he was still resigning, it would not be up to him to offer Beth the job.

I think Ruth did know Harry was staying simply because she didn't mention it on the roof, and the way she ignored Harry and carried on talking, when he mentioned the deaths of the nine people he had caused.

(06-12-2010 06:24 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  *waves*

I do agree that she isn't questioning their "closeness," because if she was, then surely they HAVE been more together. Were they not closer in S4 and S5 than S8 and S9? With regards to their professional relationship, I believe that relationship IS closer than it was before Ruth left. Ruth has become Harry's second in command almost.

That scene is so sad for me because of Harry's face when she says it. He looks so devastated like a small boy who has lost all hope. I can just imagine him saying in his head, "But... I want you Ruth. I love you. Don't let me go."

Ahhh I was going to say that!
In terms of their professional relationship I'd say that was closest in S4 and 5 but in other terms their relationship as a whole I would say they are closer in S8 and 9, what happened to Ruth's family in a way pushed them apart but also brough them closer together, but that has also made their professional relationship a little more difficult, Harry said it himself that "Our personal issues does not mena you can question everything I ask you to do" or something along those lines, I can't remember exactly
But they are the only ones that can ever understand what happened, they were the only ones that lived it first hand, in a way their bond has become stronger because of everything that's happened to Ruth and the choices Harry made... in other ways, Ruth will always hold over Harry that it was his decison that ultimately had George killed
Maybe Ruth feels now she's got nothing left to lose, except Harry, so she's drawn herself closer to him, and yet always even in S4 and 5, and in S8,9 at the final step she's always pushed him away, seems like she's scared of what could happen if she gave the relationship a real chance
*Looks up to the heavens* It's been 2 series now... Harry saved Ruth, Ruth's been there for Harry... give it a chance

Awww I wanted to cry poor Harry, he looked just a little heartbroken... but there's still hope... *Glares towards S10*... I said hope... *Looks at writters*... *sweet voice*
Please???

Thank you so much, Tea Lady. I am technologically challenged, but will try itunes. I didn't know you could download videos from it, and I don't have an ipod so haven't ever used it. If I fail you may well get a pathetic PM!

I can't bear Harry's face in that scene on the roof. It is just too sad. I don't know how Ruth could see it and not throw herself into his arms saying "ok, forget everything I just said and take me home".

Talking of sad Harry faces that breaks one's heart, the one that really gets me is the look on his face in 9.7, after he'd given her the envelope with Nico's picture. As she leaves his office he looks after her with the saddest eyes you'll ever see, I think in that moment probably believing that he really won't be able to win her over, ever.

Agreed. In fact, Ruth making Harry look sad was kind of a common theme throughout the series. Is this the mature relationship we were talking about?

This is al said before, I guess ,
but I get the feeling Ruth has hardened up rather a lot, as well as in her work, as in her behaviour towards Harry (maybe that's what NW ment when she talked about a more mature relationship),
or perhaps she just ment that they are 'evolving' so she ment 'mature' as in 'ripened', since Harry clearly is softening down in his work (towards Lucas, by giving him another chance, by regretting the 'collateral damage') and towards Ruth, when she left he couldn't even say what he felt for her even when the chance of ever seeing her again was almost non-existing, and now he puts his heart on the table by asking her to marry him.
I think that Harry still blames himself ( and in his mind Ruth blames him also) for what happened with George and Nico, even if Ruth repudiates this, and for the way Ruth has changed. Harry must see it too, I think, that Ruth isn't the person anymore that she was.
I think it's breaking his heart that he seemingly can't reach her because she will not let him.

When I see a scene of them together, talking, I'm always a bit miscontent, because I do feel there is so much left unsaid between them, I often feel like throwing a pillow at the tv shouting for gods sake, talk, tell what you both feel! Such complex emotions can't be delt with within a five minute talk! Instead they scratch the surface of each others heart but they never get to the core! I understand that it isn't possible for us to see a hour-long conversation, but I never got the idea they sat down and explained their feelings properly.

(07-12-2010 11:08 AM)Belle Wrote:  Such complex emotions can't be delt with within a five minute talk! Instead they scratch the surface of each others heart but they never get to the core!

"Scratch the surface of each others heart...." Very poetic, Belle! I love that!

While I feel Harry's pain, I also very much feel for Ruth. My heart bled for her every time Nico was reintroduced. Her reactions to that were as arresting to me as Harry's to her rebuffs.

Couldn't agree more Belle. It's so very frustrating the way they only talk for long enough to voice the misunderstanding, then get interrupted before they can get beyond it.