(16-01-2011 02:40 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

(16-01-2011 02:25 PM)Forever Secret Wrote:  But then again Ruth has always taken in every detail, which Harry doesn't always have time for, while Ruth focuses on the small details Harry always looks at the bigger picture, and when sometimes Ruth finds information that doesn't seem important, Harry would dimiss it, but that only really affects the professional relationship,

That's an interesting point! Harry approaches things very logically, whereas Ruth tends to let emotions cloud her judgement slightly.

Well, I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing that Ruth's emotions rule her judgment sometimes. I think that is the element of "instinct" that they refer to a lot. They must just follow their guts sometimes.

I really like the observation that Ruth is detail oriented and Harry is big picture oriented. That is their job and their personalities. The nature of their working relationship has shifted in S9 - she is more cut and dried logical and he is being more emotional. If it was hard enough for them to come to terms with the nature of their relationship before, in S9 they have had to renegotiate it. You'd think it would help them meet in the middle but that hasn't seemed to have happened has it?

---

(16-01-2011 06:55 AM)Silktie Wrote:  Re Ruth deciding to be selfish or not:
The question she must decide for herself is perhaps more whether it will really be a selfish action to allow herself to love Harry. Why is it necessarily seen as a selfish action? To be selfish entails choosing to do something that is to your own advantage, and will disadvantage others. Who, exactly, will be disadvantaged if she allows herself to love Harry?

I think that Ruth thinks that national security will be at risk if she allows herself to love Harry. After many years of asking that very question (4.9), he has proven that she is the line he will not cross. At least that is how it will appear to Ruth until she knows that Albany was a fake.

I just noticed that this post takes this thread to 51 pages. I assume it will be closed for a new HR thread? How about Harry & Ruth - neither the twain shall meet?

(16-01-2011 02:40 PM)Byatil Wrote:  That's an interesting point! Harry approaches things very logically, whereas Ruth tends to let emotions cloud her judgement slightly. That seems to be why they work so well together as a team, however it may not be a good combination of traits for a successful relationship.

It's very frustrating really, because as much as I'd love them to just say "sod it" and be happy together... I don't think it could ever work

That's true
Ruth has always been the one to work it all out, find the information, but the big decisions are always given to Harry to make, he can't let his emotions cloud his judgement, where as Ruth has an unseen luxury of not having to make those decisions, and can allow her emotions to come into her own judgements, like back in 8.7 where Lucas chose to use Ashok, Ruth knew he was only 17 and that he could be in danger, and she see's that MI5 use ordinary people as chess pieces,
And it sometimes makes Harry see sense as well,
What's annoying is whenever one of them opens up and shows thier feelings, the other one closes it off,
Take 9.7 where Harry had to give Ruth that letter about selling the house in Cyprus, Ruth closes off her emototions, but in 9.1 it's the opposite, on that rooftop scene at the end of the episode when she explains why she said 'No' , Harry turns away, almost ingores her explanation and goes on to talk about work... :/

I noticed (Watched back over Series 1 last night) that Harry's character has developed emotionally. during S1 he seemed cold, he didn't let emotions cloud his decisions, the closest we really saw was just after Helen died when he closed and delted her file, but as the Series have gone on he's become less cold, especially after he started having feelnigs for Ruth
where as Ruth seems to have gone in the opposite direction, she's become harder as the Series have gone on, the whole 9.7 thing where she said "I'm fine", she's not fine, but she's trying to be stronger, not let it affect her any more, I really miss the old Ruth, even S8 ruth didn't seem that depressed

I know what you mean! haha I feel like just screaming "For goodness sake just get together already" If they were to get together in S10 I think there would have to be a build up, and some revelations between them

(16-01-2011 03:43 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  Well, I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing that Ruth's emotions rule her judgment sometimes. I think that is the element of "instinct" that they refer to a lot. They must just follow their guts sometimes.

I really like the observation that Ruth is detail oriented and Harry is big picture oriented. That is their job and their personalities. The nature of their working relationship has shifted in S9 - she is more cut and dried logical and he is being more emotional. If it was hard enough for them to come to terms with the nature of their relationship before, in S9 they have had to renegotiate it. You'd think it would help them meet in the middle but that hasn't seemed to have happened has it

I don't think it's a bad thing, sometimes it actually brings out the best in both of them
Very true, in S9 it's as though they are becoming a littlre more a like, because of everything they've been through.
I think their professional lives do have an affect on their personalities,
But I think as well, because their personalities differ to each other, Ruth being more emotional, Harry being more professional, is what makes them go well and work well together, and they are good for each other

I agree, I think that what Ruth thinks as well, if she allowes herself to love Harry her decisions and his will be influenced by it and put national security at risk. Didn't Ruth say waaaaaaa back in S2 that her life was her job, now there's more to her life than just her job.
I wonder if after Ruth finds out Albany was a fake if her feelings will change, she seems to be angry with Harry for trading Albany to save her life, but really, Harry didn't trade a state secret, he traded his own life, his own career to save her live... and nothing, maybe that will prove to her how much Harry loves her, and of course, I wonder if Lucas's last words to her, about being selfish will change her mind about allowing herself to love Harry,
Watching Lucas, it seemed to be like he was telling her "I nearly lost my chance... don't let to same thing happen to yourself"

Oooh good point, new thread coming soon?

(16-01-2011 03:43 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I just noticed that this post takes this thread to 51 pages. I assume it will be closed for a new HR thread? How about Harry & Ruth - neither the twain shall meet?

How about naming the new thread after some of these literary classics

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosss-Marriage-A...077&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reluctant-Surren...077&sr=8-5

(16-01-2011 04:12 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

(16-01-2011 03:43 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I just noticed that this post takes this thread to 51 pages. I assume it will be closed for a new HR thread? How about Harry & Ruth - neither the twain shall meet?

How about naming the new thread after some of these literary classics

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosss-Marriage-A...077&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reluctant-Surren...077&sr=8-5

A Mills and Boon reference seems wholly appropriate!

Literary classics, indeed.

Unfortunately, the ten year old boy in me cannot resist the urge to misbehave.

I do like Harry and Ruth - Reluctant Surrender.

How about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Interest-...73&sr=1-23

It's a "super" romance! Whatever the heck that is.... But I doubt it means "super" as in "superior quality."

(16-01-2011 03:43 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I think that Ruth thinks that national security will be at risk if she allows herself to love Harry. After many years of asking that very question (4.9), he has proven that she is the line he will not cross. At least that is how it will appear to Ruth until she knows that Albany was a fake.

But the point is, it IS ALREADY affecting both their decisions, even when they're not actually together. They love each other and that is not going to change if they don't ever get together. So how will them getting together make it any worse? If anything, this is the message that Ruth should get from Harry's actions in 9.8.

Haha, great suggestions for a new thread name. Someone with photoshop skills should make us a few book covers, with Harry and Ruth posing in those ridiculous poses one sees on such books...

I'd like to think it's so bad it's almost good...

I can honestly say, I've never seen anything like it!

I agree with Silktie. Not being together doesn't mean they don't react as if they are. They might as well enjoy the good bits of a relationship - when will they ever work this out!!

(16-01-2011 07:07 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

I'd like to think it's so bad it's almost good...

Ahahahaha! That made my day.

(16-01-2011 07:07 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

I'd like to think it's so bad it's almost good...

OMG!!! What on earth...