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HellsBells · 02-03-2011, 02:20 PM

I had been thinking along the same lines Byatil. Why do I have to watch the extras on the DVD to explain various parts of the story?
During the 9.7 commentary (sorry haven't watch it all) they talk about the fantastic passion and chemistry between Maya and Lucas, I think they must have been watching a different series to the one that I watched!

**A Cousin** · 02-03-2011, 03:14 PM

(02-03-2011 02:20 PM)HellsBells Wrote: Why do I have to watch the extras on the DVD to explain various parts of the story?

You shouldn't. That is exactly why 9.8 disappointed me. They bit off more than they could chew, much less digest, so by the time we got to 9.8 they weren't able to explain everything sufficiently and opted for the simplistic route. Up to that point, it was all working very nicely for me. I know we all have very strong feelings about whether the Lucas/John plotline worked or not so I don't want to get back into that. (Please!) I was willing to swallow it, holes and all, but, to whip the dead horse of metaphor, the mouthful was too big.

Byatil · (This post was last modified: 02-03-2011 06:34 PM by Byatil.)

My DVD finally arrived today! Just watched "The Downfall of Lucas North"...

Series The Downfall of Lucas North (S9 DVD Extra) Spoiler: show

I'm still not convinced. I can suspend my disbelief to the point where John Bateman is masquerading as Lucas North; but it still makes absolutely no sense within the overall plot. In terms of his character, I can just about believe it. The links they made with some of his tattoos were interesting ones (however... they could also have been linked to the fact Lucas didn't want to lose "himself" whilst he was in prison), but it's slightly problematic that most Spooks viewers wouldn't realise the imagery behind some of his tattoos, and equally, some of his tattoos aren't even visible! If, somehow, they could have explained how John managed to:
- Pretend to be Lucas North for 15 years
- Infiltrate MI5
- Successfully masquerade under an entirely new identity
- Have a bizarre love interest in a woman he knew 15 years ago, which he was willing to die/kill for
- Avoid revealing any information which might suggest he wasn't who he said he was (...for 15 years. Whilst being tortured at some points.)

Then I might just be able to believe the plot. As it stands... it still makes no sense, and I'm still angry! Dodgy

I do, however, get the feeling a lot of information was withheld from the audience in terms of the John/Maya/Vaughn relationships.

I was really hoping this feature might explain how John managed to get away with pretending to be Lucas for so long, but it's just left me feeling cheated. The producer (or writer? I can't remember what he did rofl) on the feature said something along the lines of "I hope people watch Lucas over the course of the series and think "Wow, it could all have been so different if only he had stayed with Maya", and "The great thing about S9 is that it includes a classic love story". Just... argh! Maybe if there was a viable reason for Lucas to give a damn about Maya, I might have cared more. Maybe if they actually had a "passionate relationship" (as is claimed on the feature) I might have found it all a bit more believable. I just don't understand! Why doesn't it make any sense?!

Anyway, I'll reserve judgement on the series plot-holes until I've watched the entire thing through again and mercilessly questioned everything. I'm looking forward to the NW commentary and interview at least!

langley · 02-03-2011, 06:49 PM

(01-03-2011 09:05 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:
Series cost of being a spy Spoiler: show
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I got the impression from what NW was saying that Ruth knew at the end of the episode, that Albany was fake and that Harry was still the man she ultimately thought him to be. This wasn't really covered at the end of 9.8. I certainly went away and thought Ruth doesn't know Albany was fake. Was that why she was crying then as well?

Anyway, I thought NW and PF were lovely together. Clearly both of them have a hard time following the scripts I did get the impression that Ruth and Harry are far from finished though. Those actors have invested too much time in them, and the writers love them too, to let that relationship end. I wouldn't say I have high hopes for H/R in S10 but there is a little hope.

Tea Lady, My impression at the end of 9.8 was that Harry had comms on and they were all watching or listening to what was happening so she found out when Lucas did that Albany was a fake. Then she was crying because she almost lost Harry and realized she still loved him and felt guilty at the same time for being so cold to him, like when she said he was on his own so they shouldn't send backup.

BoHenley · 02-03-2011, 07:44 PM

(02-03-2011 02:20 PM)HellsBells Wrote: I had been thinking along the same lines Byatil. Why do I have to watch the extras on the DVD to explain various parts of the story?
During the 9.7 commentary (sorry haven't watch it all) they talk about the fantastic passion and chemistry between Maya and Lucas, I think they must have been watching a different series to the one that I watched!

NO-ONE should have to watch extras on the DVD to explain the story. It's one of the primary rules of any writing (and editing): SHOW DON'T TELL. SHOW US the passionate relationship between Lucas and Maya (we didn't see it), SHOW US how Lucas evaded detection, was enlisted in MI5, suddenly found all that equipment and instant computing capabilities in Episode 8, etc etc. It was a hash-up ending to cover massive holes in the plot, that a DVD "extra" should not be trying to fill in. If they couldn't fit it into Episode 8, then why didn't they split that last episode into 10.1 and explain in properly. Maybe then there wouldn't be so many angry and confused fans.

My DVD is still on its way to Oz (it's okay, it's still fast), but your comments don't bode well for any real explanation to the holes in S9. What a pity.

Tea Lady · 02-03-2011, 08:43 PM

(02-03-2011 06:49 PM)langley Wrote:
(01-03-2011 09:05 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:
Series cost of being a spy Spoiler: show
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I got the impression from what NW was saying that Ruth knew at the end of the episode, that Albany was fake and that Harry was still the man she ultimately thought him to be. This wasn't really covered at the end of 9.8. I certainly went away and thought Ruth doesn't know Albany was fake. Was that why she was crying then as well?

Anyway, I thought NW and PF were lovely together. Clearly both of them have a hard time following the scripts I did get the impression that Ruth and Harry are far from finished though. Those actors have invested too much time in them, and the writers love them too, to let that relationship end. I wouldn't say I have high hopes for H/R in S10 but there is a little hope.

Tea Lady, My impression at the end of 9.8 was that Harry had comms on and they were all watching or listening to what was happening so she found out when Lucas did that Albany was a fake. Then she was crying because she almost lost Harry and realized she still loved him and felt guilty at the same time for being so cold to him, like when she said he was on his own so they shouldn't send backup.

Thanks Langley. So Ruth does know Albany was fake. I'm glad of that as they can move past this when S10 starts. I think all the fanfic out there confuses me as well. Most begin with Ruth not knowing Ablany was fake.

Naivety · 02-03-2011, 08:52 PM

My DVD has arrived at last!! Just waiting for some quality 'me time' so I can watch it in peace. I haven't read any of the spoilers above so I'm SO EXCITED about watching it!! Yahoo

langley · 02-03-2011, 08:58 PM

So happy for you Naivety! Please feel free to post lots of quotes, summaries, and other nuggets of information for those of us in other regions who have no hope of getting the DVD's for many months!

Naivety · 03-03-2011, 07:17 AM

Watched The Cost of Being a Spy and the episode 7 commentary late last night. Lots to think about while I'm trying to get through a long day at work. I loved the bits with NW and PF on the sofa. Peter is soooo lovely! I know they ham their relationship up for the camera but they are obviously very fond of each other, no wonder they can do unspoken 'on-screen' chemistry so well.

watchstrap · 03-03-2011, 02:47 PM

That's it. You lot have persuaded me to buy the S9 DVD, despite having all the episodes on our media player already. Mr WS will think it's a waste of money, but no worse than him buying the same albums on CD and vinyl. That's going to be my defence anyway.