(13-03-2011 12:49 PM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  I need to change my user name to English Pedant!!

Harry would not be wearing a tux. He would be wearing a dinner jacket or white tie. This is British Establishment folks - get it right!

---

My preference would be for white tie.

Okay, fair dos.

Either way....

Ha ha. Our smileys thud in unison!

Third time lucky (I hope). Trusting I have finally found the right thread for this comment. I can get a bit lost on here sometimes ...

Did anyone else notice that the rooftop scene in S8.8 with Harry and Ruth, where he is moved to tears after quoting Schiller's Ode to Joy, parallels the scene he has with his daughter in S3.4? In 3.4 he is moved to tears when his daughter reads from the Yeats' poem, and she then says: 'Dad, don't, Dad. (pause) We better go, it's too windy.' In 8.8 he responds to Ruth's concern for his tears by saying: 'It's just the wind, Ruth'. And, yes, they were both written by the same scriptwriter - Ben Richards. Coincidence? I don't think so! Has Harry cried anywhere else in the series?

I'd love to know what people think about this - Is a bit of poetry in the right context the chink in Harry's armour?

I've just replied to this post in the series 8 thread! Here it is again. I know what you mean about getting lost in the forum, although I can't think of a nicer place to be lost.

They are both lovely scenes. I never spotted the parallel before, interesting that they are both written by the same person.

I'd rather see that side of Spooks than any number of explosions.

Nixie, that had struck me as well. I like it a lot when they show Harry's intellectual side, being moved by poetry or showing an in depth knowledge of literature or classical music. It makes him even sexier.

I would say that the show uses poetry to allow a character (Harry) who's had to close himself off emotionally to be able to survive in the job, to vocalise his feelings in times of great emotion. With his daughter, the poem allows him to express his love for her, which we know Harry has been unable to vocalise himself. And in season 8, the quote from Ode to Joy allows him to show to Ruth that he still cares a great deal for humanity, and is moved by the cruel things the human race can do to each other.

I don't think it's necessarily the poetry that makes him cry, but rather the people he is with in those scenes. His daughter and Ruth are the two people he probably loves most in this world, thus it is natural that he would want them to know what he really feels. But he doesn't know how to say it in his own words, thus the use of the poems in those two situations.

(04-04-2011 06:35 AM)Silktie Wrote:  I would say that the show uses poetry to allow a character (Harry) who's had to close himself off emotionally to be able to survive in the job, to vocalise his feelings in times of great emotion.

He uses philosophy in the same way too - the Bible and Kierkegaard jump immediately to mind. The Personnel Files indicate that Harry is fiercely intelligent. And broadly so. The only person within the Spooks canon that can hold a candle to him in range and expertise of intellect is Ruth. Thus the attraction, IMO. A young Harry strikes me as one of those people who is so adroit at so much it can be difficult for them to settle on a specialization.

You certainly get the sense from Harry's Diary that he is a man who loves his literature and history.

One of my favourite Harry moments is in 1.4 when he wearily points out to Jools that Peter Salter's quote is from Coriolanus.

I also love in 5.8 when he makes the claim (an accurate one, I feel) that certain Islamic threats scare him no more than 'England under Cromwell.' He can be a little selective with what he remembers from history, though.

I think Harry sees music and literature as being fruits of democratic societies, as they embody free speech at its very best. And Harry, for all his cynicism, knows that what England has is something worth protecting.

This is another of my 'Harry ultimately loves democracy' posts.

Silktie, I absolutely agree with you! I've definitely thought at times that Harry embodies the very English 'stiff upper lip' and emotional repression required by his job to enable him to hold it all together for everyone, so I really love those moments when the veneer cracks a little and we see those emotions he obviously feels deeply, but holds in check.

(04-04-2011 02:10 PM)JHyde Wrote:  I think Harry sees music and literature as being fruits of democratic societies, as they embody free speech at its very best. And Harry, for all his cynicism, knows that what England has is something worth protecting.

I think we see this as well in S5.2 where Harry quotes Rupert Brooke to Collingwood, when being detained under the special measures: 'And stands the clock at ten to three?' Brooke's poem (written in Berlin in 1912) evokes a sense of nostalgia and homesickness, mixed with patriotism, a ‘blended yearning for England with an evocation of rural tranquillity’. Brooke captures memories of a happier, more stable, time while experiencing the threat of war and social upheavals. In quoting Brooke, Harry evokes a sense that all that England stands for – politically and socially – will be lost if the conspirators’ plot succeeds. England will be run by a self-appointed covert despotic council, hiding behind a democratically elected Prime Minister, whom they have turned into a puppet. So much implied in a one line quote! Clever writing and beautifully delivered!

Good point, A Cousin. Philosophy, history, the classics, poetry and other literature - a real Renaissance man

(04-04-2011 11:43 PM)Nixie Wrote:  So much implied in a one line quote! Clever writing and beautifully delivered!

That's the kind of writing that's been missing in more recent series, and I really miss it.