(25-10-2011 03:40 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  It's interesting, I've just been tweeting with people who follow the @spookstv account and almost all of them loved the ending even if they were sad that Ruth died.

So maybe in this case people are upset because they had prior knowledge of what might happen and were expecting something else. Which isn't Kudos' fault.

I too have said I felt the ending was perfect, superb, genius and couldn't have gone any other way but I think we just have to acknowledge from the years of speculation, fantasies and wish-lists on this site concerning Ruth and Harry, and you must have read more than me, many others are devasted that none of their wishes came true. I agree that ranting about wasting 10 years investment in their story is silly. We don't go through life refusing to love someone or adopt a pet because one day they'll die so it'll be a waste of time, we learn to deal with grief, remember the good times and move on. To quote Tennyson again (getting boring now I know!) Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all....

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(25-10-2011 08:24 PM)Gazelle Wrote:  Not sure if anyone's touched on this recently but I still can't understand why Calum and the team didn't do a better job of analysing the CCTV footage that Tariq came across that led to him getting killed. Surely Calum wouldn't have abandoned the analysis the moment he recognised the CIA woman? If he'd followed it through then one of them would surely have recognised Elena which would have avoided all this heartache. Bit of a flaw in the plot if you ask me!

Certainly Harry would/should have recognized Elena if he looked at the CCTV footage. Can't remember if he did or not. She was kinda hard to miss.

(25-10-2011 08:53 PM)nimax1 Wrote:  Certainly Harry would/should have recognized Elena if he looked at the CCTV footage. Can't remember if he did or not. She was kinda hard to miss.

For some reason none of them looked beyond the bit where the cameras picked up the CIA woman...

I have tried to read everyone's comments and really take in what is being said about how appropriate and beautiful the ending was. I want to agree, because clearly to have found this perfect would be a much more pleasant experience. I forced myself to watch the repeat last night, constantly reminding myself how this was, apparently, the only possible way for Spooks to end. I revelled in everyone's incredible acting. I laughed at the funny lines. I took in the beauty of the memorial wall. I forced my way through the poignancy of Harry's last scene.

I don't get it. I will never get it.

I have been watching Spooks since it first began 10 years ago. I have always enjoyed it, in spite of the derision of family members who know a bit about the security services. I have loved many of the characters (particularly Zaf and Adam) and have been sad when they died, but have always acknowledged that it has been in the "Spooks tradition" and it has been gripping, heroic and exciting as well as awful. I've always been left with the sort of "wow" feeling that most people seem to be achieving now. I do not watch Spooks just for Harry and Ruth, and I don't like the dismissive way people are categorised as the H/R brigade. I have always enjoyed both characters as individuals and because they are played by such exceptional actors. It is the actors and the writers who introduced any sort of relationship element and have been leading us along this path. Those who are most immersed in the show have followed, and cared just like they wanted us to. Everyone loves Harry and wants him to be happy, and it is the writers and the actors who have convinced us that he believes he would be happy with Ruth. That is why we wanted that for him. The show is not all about Harry and Ruth, but it is the writers who put all the emphasis on Harry during this last series. Of course, they wanted to make the most of Peter Firth's skills and this series is a gem in that respect, but it is the writers who created that emphasis and the viewers would have to be asleep not to notice.

Ruth's death was completely different from any of the other deaths on the show. It was unbearably and irredeemably sad. The writers have spent the last two series showing us what little appetite Harry had for his job any more. They concentrated our minds on the sacrifices he has made for his country and Peter Firth made us care. And how do they repay us for obliging them and caring? They put him back in that job he has grown to detest because they have taken away any other brighter hope for him, and that is the final image we are left with.

And, of course it's not real. I am finding it very irritating, seeing that smugly pointed out as if some do not appreciate the fact. Surely the pinnacle of achievement for drama-makers is to create something which becomes real in the imaginations of the viewers. I'm sure they would not want to the belittle those viewers when they do achieve it. And frankly I think it is pretty rich for anyone who has registered on a fan forum (not to mention people who are obsessed enough to start up a forum) to mock others who take it seriously.

It is bunkum to say this is the only way the series could have ended. A happy ending would have been soap opera? Does anyone watch soaps? I don't, largely because you can bet that the second a character is happy, death, betrayal and misery are close behind. In that respect, this last episode was pure gold soap. It was the acting skills of PF and NW that saved it. Just as their skill would have delivered an equally plausible end with them together. And I'd put money on it that if that is what had happened, being the consummate professionals that they are, they would now be giving interviews saying how fitting and deserved that kind of ending was. I didn't want to see roses round the door. Just an acknowledgment, however subtle, that sometimes people can find their way to each other, no matter the obstacles.

So now I am sad. And I want the writers to know that I am sad. For 9 series and five and 55/60ths of an episode I thought Spooks was the best thing I had ever seen on television. Now I just hope I wake up tomorrow and have forgotten all about it.

And if you make a sarky comment about that, Nitrus, I swear to god I will hunt you down - Tom Quinn style!!!

.. wow, it looks like I'll have to rewatch the ending: I thought Sasha was killed? but other posts say not--
yikes, if he's alive- poor guy! talk about living out a Greek tragedy- jeez- pummelled to an emotional pulp for (at least) a week?

- - - -

another couple of thoughts for the continuing "happy vs sad" ending discussion..

1. despite the attempts to reflect 'real' events, Spooks is, essentially, an adult fairytale in one respect: usually, the 'bad guys trying to kill us' get theirs.

usually, the good guys win. (in The Real World, we can barely define "good guys"! much less count on them 'winning'--)

i.e. the casualties make the show MORE believable.. and are, therefore, necessary: every time a cherished character dies in the line of fire- the sadness of their loss distracts us from seeing the otherwise glaringly inordinate number of times Section D succeeds.. 'gets lucky.'

so Ruth's death, purely dramatically speaking (though it didn't have to be Ruth's..) serves a purpose: helps us believe the just-in-the-nick-of-time saves of the plane and the pact with the Russians..

2. Spooks may not seem or purport to be about 'romantic' or other personal relationships.. but it is precisely these relationships, no matter how subtly limned, that make us care, at all, whether this week's bomb or last week's hijack or the week before's kidnapping- get intercepted.

otherwise, it may as well be a video game.

so yeah, imho, the Harry and Ruth will-they-won't-they dance.. matters, will always matter, tremendously. isn't that one, important yardstick by which we measure Harry's courage? how we gauge how much he risks? determine how incorruptible he is or isn't? how Ruth weighs each decision- what motivates her actions.. etc etc

even the fact that I'm still blabbing on about these fictional tv characters is due to the relationships between them.. those relationships (the actors' portrayals) are what made the characters appear real- made me care. all slick car chases and 'intel' without ties-that-bind? I would not have kept watching.. the show would not have hooked me-

Dog So Small, that was a very good post, and I agree with you. Isn't it just logical that the more real a character feels to you (thanks to great acting, writing, and your own imagination), the more you're going to grieve when that character dies? What kind of person, for instance, would say at the death of a family member, "Yes, that was really the only right way to end it. I would have hated a happy ending."

How true!

DogSoSmall

Beautifully said. Couldn't agree more.

Daphne - good points

As Calum said, "Bad people want to kill us" and I believe that Spooks started off as MI5 trying to stop them. Pretty much MI5 win. Happy endings. (Oh no I forgot, we aren't allowed those.) It is the people that make us care about the sacrifices they make. They made us care about Harry and Ruth. They made us care about them having a life together. MI5 officers lead happy lifes outside of the job so why couldn't Harry and Ruth after all their suffering through the years. Wouldn't that have been a better message? Half the viewers are still distraught now -what an achievement. Life is far too easy, lets cause a bit of misery !

(25-10-2011 09:55 PM)harrbd Wrote:  Half the viewers are still distraught now -what an achievement.

I think you've nailed it-
what greater response can a play/drama strive for than this?!
for a tv show, distraught viewers moved-to-tears/posts = a standing ovation!

(25-10-2011 09:21 PM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  I have tried to read everyone's comments and really take in what is being said about how appropriate and beautiful the ending was. I want to agree, because clearly to have found this perfect would be a much more pleasant experience. I forced myself to watch the repeat last night, constantly reminding myself how this was, apparently, the only possible way for Spooks to end. I revelled in everyone's incredible acting. I laughed at the funny lines. I took in the beauty of the memorial wall. I forced my way through the poignancy of Harry's last scene.

I don't get it. I will never get it.

I have been watching Spooks since it first began 10 years ago. I have always enjoyed it, in spite of the derision of family members who know a bit about the security services. I have loved many of the characters (particularly Zaf and Adam) and have been sad when they died, but have always acknowledged that it has been in the "Spooks tradition" and it has been gripping, heroic and exciting as well as awful. I've always been left with the sort of "wow" feeling that most people seem to be achieving now. I do not watch Spooks just for Harry and Ruth, and I don't like the dismissive way people are categorised as the H/R brigade. I have always enjoyed both characters as individuals and because they are played by such exceptional actors. It is the actors and the writers who introduced any sort of relationship element and have been leading us along this path. Those who are most immersed in the show have followed, and cared just like they wanted us to. Everyone loves Harry and wants him to be happy, and it is the writers and the actors who have convinced us that he believes he would be happy with Ruth. That is why we wanted that for him. The show is not all about Harry and Ruth, but it is the writers who put all the emphasis on Harry during this last series. Of course, they wanted to make the most of Peter Firth's skills and this series is a gem in that respect, but it is the writers who created that emphasis and the viewers would have to be asleep not to notice.

Ruth's death was completely different from any of the other deaths on the show. It was unbearably and irredeemably sad. The writers have spent the last two series showing us what little appetite Harry had for his job any more. They concentrated our minds on the sacrifices he has made for his country and Peter Firth made us care. And how do they repay us for obliging them and caring? They put him back in that job he has grown to detest because they have taken away any other brighter hope for him, and that is the final image we are left with.

And, of course it's not real. I am finding it very irritating, seeing that smugly pointed out as if some do not appreciate the fact. Surely the pinnacle of achievement for drama-makers is to create something which becomes real in the imaginations of the viewers. I'm sure they would not want to the belittle those viewers when they do achieve it. And frankly I think it is pretty rich for anyone who has registered on a fan forum (not to mention people who are obsessed enough to start up a forum) to mock others who take it seriously.

It is bunkum to say this is the only way the series could have ended. A happy ending would have been soap opera? Does anyone watch soaps? I don't, largely because you can bet that the second a character is happy, death, betrayal and misery are close behind. In that respect, this last episode was pure gold soap. It was the acting skills of PF and NW that saved it. Just as their skill would have delivered an equally plausible end with them together. And I'd put money on it that if that is what had happened, being the consummate professionals that they are, they would now be giving interviews saying how fitting and deserved that kind of ending was. I didn't want to see roses round the door. Just an acknowledgment, however subtle, that sometimes people can find their way to each other, no matter the obstacles.

So now I am sad. And I want the writers to know that I am sad. For 9 series and five and 55/60ths of an episode I thought Spooks was the best thing I had ever seen on television. Now I just hope I wake up tomorrow and have forgotten all about it.

And if you make a sarky comment about that, Nitrus, I swear to god I will hunt you down - Tom Quinn style!!!

Thank you for your wonderful remarks. I wish I could write so well.

You have summarized so well my feelings about the love of Harry and Ruth and the mockery that other fans, one person in particular, heap on us because we dare to cherish them.

It's so childish that we are not allowed to have a different opinion from other fans. Isn’t what a forum is about, to share different points of view and respect each other? It is even more galling when our posts are dismissed without being read properly. Why is so difficult to accept that H/R fans can also appreciate the spying tradecraft? I suppose that I will be again exiled! Big deal. As a teacher, I find it very funny that at my age I am being sent to the corner with a dunce hat.

Now let’s go back to the truly important stuff. Harry broke my heart during the death of Ruth, at the cottage, at the memorial and in his office with his black and white mourning tie. It was nearly unbearable to watch him, nearly more so than the actual death of Ruth. Britain is now supposed to be safe in the hands of a broken and reluctant Head of Section, who kidnapped a CIA deputy-director and nearly blew up a plane full of civilians. What will Harry do without the guidance of Ruth who was not only the love of his life but his moral compass?

Harry and Ruth deserved a happy understated ending. I can't get over the fact that they shared only three kisses in 9 years and for the third one Ruth had to be dead. It is so unrealistic and ridiculous.

I am truly sorry that Spooks has disappointed you after 10 years of faithful viewing. PF and NW have tried so hard to create a loving and perfectly-matched couple who should be envied by all and not mocked by some. The marvelous PF and NW must have felt somewhat betrayed by the short-sighted imagination and the tedious shock and awe formula of Kudos.