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+--- Thread: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion (/thread-1975.html)
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - WhiteSwan - 24-10-2011 08:24 PM
(24-10-2011 09:00 AM)Belle Wrote: The scene where we saw the memorial was heartbraking, but I think that it's not fair that Lucas isn't on it, he did spent 8 years of his life in prison for queen and country, no matter what his name was.When I first read about that I was very angry and very hurt, because it was obviously meant to be a final insult to Lucas and his fans! But now I'm able to look at it from a very different point of view: for me (and I suppose for many other Lucasfans as well) that whole JB nonsense never happened. It was just too absurd to believe! So poor Lucas was only in a coma having terrible nightmares. And because he never died, there is no need to include his name in the memorial.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - beatrice4ruth - 24-10-2011 08:33 PM
From the start, because of my own history, I knew that Elena was a double agent and it was not long before I realized that Sasha was not Harry’s son and worse of all that HARRY HAD BEEN FOOLED FOR 30 YEARS. Elena said it best: “sweet, naïve Harry”, which I had not dare say myself on this forum. I knew that there was no way that the KGB had not noticed the affair between Harry and Elena.
But I must admit that I was astonished that Ilya did not realize that Elena had been recruited by his own agency to seduce Harry. I was sure that he had to be an accomplice of Elena. I felt so sorry for Ilya and Sasha to hear Elena’s terrible revelations. Ruth was right: Elena was a fanatic ready to sacrifice her adored son, which to me is totally horrifying. I really felt for Ilya, who had to kill his wife and whose son was killed by Section D. Elena must be the worst Spooks villain. The acting of JH, AK and TWJ was compelling.
I am surprised how Kudos has tarnished Harry’s image in the last two series. I suppose we should be grateful that they did not turn him into a traitor. I do understand why Harry, as a young intelligence officer, had been tricked by Elena. What I do not understand why Harry, as a Head of Section, had not realized as soon as he saw that Elena had always been a Russian agent. I hate to say it, but two women were better spies than Harry: Elena and Ruth. Ruth was right to tell Harry that his judgment was clouded by his guilt. How many times did Ruth challenge Harry’s judgment and he did not listen? She was right again (I bet to many fans’ annoyance) when she told Harry that there was no bomb on the plane and Elena was tricking him one last time.
As you know, I love Ruth and her death broke my heart. But I do understand why Kudos decided to kill her. To protect the realm Harry, however damaged he was, was supposed to go on and on even after suffering his greatest loss. In fact, I knew that Ruth was going to die months ago thanks to Twitter. The happiness of Harry when Ruth asked him to share together their retirement in her dream home was so heart breaking. I am glad that at least Harry and Ruth admitted their love (though I am still waiting for the word itself and kissing a dead Ruth is not quite the same as kissing a living Ruth) at the end. I am also happy that they were together when Ruth died. I hope for Harry that at least his children will surround him at his death.
A worse outcome for me would have been the break-up of their relationship or one of them turned out to be a traitor (how many times have I heard the whisper that Ruth might be a traitor).
After watching so many boring sex scenes of the younger spooks generation (Adam and Anna come to mind), I do not understand why Harry and Ruth were not allowed some happiness before her death. I will not forgive Kudos for that. Why was it so difficult for Kudos to offer us a beautiful story of a married Harry and Ruth, like Silktie’s “Blood, Sand and Tears.” I am afraid that it was too grown-up for Kudos.
I truly feel sorry for Harry. He lost the love of his life, who was a kid when he made his fatal mistake of trusting Elena. He lost Ruth twice because of his shortcomings and the second time will be even more traumatic for him. He will not be allowed the luxury of dreaming about the return of Ruth. Both the tour of Ruth’s dream home and the memorial were heart-wrenching. But I found the scene of Harry wearing a black and white tie in mourning in his office even more poignant. Will he be able to function as a Head of Section if he is so broken by the death of Ruth, who was the love of his life, his soul mate, his confident and his most ardent supporter? I just hope that he will find some solace with his real children, at least Catherine, and perhaps mend his relationship with Graham.
In fact, I liked the episode. It was fast-pacing and exciting. Finally, the whole series made sense. I was still waiting for the impersonator plot, but I had to put up just with Elena. It is a pity. I was really looking forward to a corrupt high-ranking British intelligence officer, if possible Oliver Mace.
I do not understand why Kudos has flaunted the ending as clear-cut. Some fans are already hoping that Spooks will go on, perhaps in another shape, with Harry and Tom! Kudos can expect another round of letters requesting the return of Spooks in 2012.
I will miss Spooks, its storylines and the fabulous acting of all. PF and NW have touched me very much and I am thankful for the great joy they gave me. I also want to thank the whole Spooks cast, the crew and the writers for the lovely hours of entertainment they gave me over the years. Spooks was really British TV at its best!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - SweetTea - 24-10-2011 08:50 PM
(24-10-2011 07:10 PM)Onion Terror Wrote: Also liked the memorial bit. Can't see Tariq on there although I guess the idea was that Harry was looking at Ruths name specifically rather than those of all his former officers. Tariq would obviously have been on there somewhere. On a pedantic note, I thought it was Ben Kaplan, with an A; not Kaplin with an I, as the memorial had it.
I had to go back a couple of times to see Tariq's name. We only see it in a larger shot - it's one of the first shots we see of the memorial wall. It's 3 names above Ruth's (I believe.)
I myself am coping with the day by watching the last ep of series 2 Touching Evil - (Ruth lives!) and then watching Four Weddings and a Funeral. Nicola made me laugh, which I sorely needed. I also hope to see some interviews with PF/NW now that they can talk freely about it and what they thought of the fan's reactions.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - bumble_berry - 24-10-2011 09:02 PM
Hey, I have been a bit of a lurker around here... But I have watched Spooks since the very first episode, right through to the end, and also fell in love with the story of Ruth&Harry.
I have to say the final was a perfect ending. Although I was devastated by Ruth's death and cried for ages, it was right and fitting for Spooks. Ruth dying was a sacrifice, she knew it was her turn (if not a long time ago) and from back in series 5 it was evident she would give her life if it meant Harry was saved. Furthermore, the whole aftermath of Ruth's death... Harry visiting the house, and not being able to picture himself there alone, the memorial scene which was brilliantly shot, and lastly his return in the grid. The almost tears that came to Harry's eyes as he was in his chair, it was heartbreaking. The grid is all he has left.
Peter and Nicola are a credit to Spooks and to the fans... they both created something amazing, which was loved by many, and as devastating as it was that we didn't get a happy ending, we got to see some powerful acting that was truly moving. A happier ending would have had less impact and I think for TV tragedy is always better and its always more challenging for the actor.
Have to add, it was lovely seeing Tom Quinn back, it was nostalgic. I would love a spin off involving Tom, doubt it will happen, but it would be nice
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Scarlet - 24-10-2011 10:01 PM
Preparing to watch it again. Maybe it'll sting a little less 2nd time round and I'll be able to appreciate what others have said.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Melancholy - 24-10-2011 10:09 PM
Been reading these views on the final ep and felt need to register to comment.
For me, the episode provided the best ending; it was sad but beautiful and fitting. For me, it embodied the whole point of Spooks, that these spies can lose everything and still carry on for the phrase Regnum Defende. I wasn't the biggest H&R fan but my heart wrenched when Ruth died and still cannot get over it and how it affected Harry, I felt for him and still do. Overall, the supporting cast were excellent and the plot came to a satisfying conclusion, giving Spooks a memorable send off for me.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - pennyfeather - 24-10-2011 11:04 PM
[/quote]
interesting question..
Spooks is only a tv show.
and it isn't only a tv show.
most plays are initially meant for entertainment, as well- yet there are those that endure.. for decades. centuries (!). that continue to engage and intrigue us- for a reason.
when drama reaches for quality- (as these writers/actors/directors/camera, editing, ? crew certainly did)- I believe it can transcend genre- in this case, "the boob tube" as it's, um, referred to in the land of the bumbling Americans (where we lose packages
) take away the snazzy computers, car chases, weapons and current-event plot twists, and you still have great, human drama in Spooks- brought to life by extremely gifted performers-
bla bla bla
but really..
just sayin'
I don't see anything wrong with becoming "attached" to Harry Pearce, for ex, as to any well-developed/imagined character in a favorite play or novel..
[/quote]
Comments like these make me feel like its fate that the spooks final episode aired just at this time. For my exam which falls next week there is an essay question which asks 'Do tragic events in art affect/move us more than tragic events in real life'
After watching episode 6 last night I can say with a great deal of conviction 'hells yes!' And so many posts have given me the answer and argument to that question.
I woke up this mourning with a lingering sense of anguish and sadness but it has been truly wonderful to read and share with you all these emotions to the spooks finale
As someone said earlier it has been comforting and enlightening so thank you.
As I think W.H Auden said: 'a bliss born of pain'
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Morello - 25-10-2011 12:26 AM
I really loved that ending – it was gripping and contained some humour as well as being genuinely moving, even for an occasional watcher like me who has only really become thoroughly hooked this series. I didn’t find the ending too soapy, mainly because I’ve always seen Spooks as a soap. This isn’t a criticism – it’s wonderful, well-acted spy soap of the highest order – good quality entertainment.
The ending was very sad, and I thought also very fitting. I like the fact that the possibility of a happy ending had an existence in the idea of Ruth’s seaside cottage – a ‘nice dream’ that both of them knew was never likely to become a reality. The acting was great – I loved Harry with literal and metaphorical blood on his hands unable to touch Ruth properly because of it. The way Peter Firth acted that was beautiful – I couldn’t stop looking at his hand. I found that part even more touching than the too-late kiss. That whole scene was very 'Romeo and Juliet' – Ruth getting between Sasha and Harry, and the sense of everyone somehow being punished for the past. In this show no one is entirely innocent, and I always prefer morally shaded drama.
Personally I really liked all three of the Gavriks as characters. Perhaps it’s because, as a relative new-comer, I don’t have anything like the investment in the Grid characters that more die-hard fans do, but I found all three performances quite engrossing. I read a reviewer on another site who said that, since he wasn’t Harry’s son after all, Sasha’s character was pointless. I can’t agree with that at all. I found him to be the one I was following, because I was as confused as he was. I was pretty sure that Harry had lied to Elena about her parents in order to turn her, but I had no idea that she knew she was lying to Sasha when she gave him her reasons for being Harry’s spy, after Sasha killed his friend to protect her! Maybe I’m just naïve, but, although I didn’t trust her, I hadn’t worked out the plot at all, and it did grip me throughout the season. Sasha was also necessary to link Harry to Elena for the viewers. Would we care much about Harry/Elena and their past without a son in the picture? Poor Sasha! He’s going to need therapy for the rest of his life. (I’m assuming he survived – he was only shot in the leg, and he didn’t look too bad when we last saw him on the ground next to Callum.) Ilya was brilliant – such presence. Yes – the whole Gavrik plot was quite melodramatic, but I found all three of them surprisingly sympathetic characters at different times (and, as I said, I do view the whole thing as good soap over all). I’d like to have seen something of Sasha’s relationship with Ilya too – but I guess there was no time.
For me, Harry’s inability to see through Elena didn’t come across as weakness, but as very human. He had so much invested in her – his sense of guilt – his almost thirty year belief that Sasha was his son – that he just couldn’t make a leap that huge, to see her for what she really was quickly enough. Ruth making the right decision seemed perfect here – reminding the viewer of how they complement each other and how effective they can be as a team. It makes the ending even more tragic.
As a fanfic writer (mainly in other fandoms) I completely understand the Harry/Ruth shippers’ sorrow – this ending is (to my mind effectively) very bleak. But I just can’t see either of these characters happy in that cottage in a realistic future. My one quibble with the whole episode was originally that shot of the location of the cottage, which seemed to be neither in Suffolk (the White Cliffs of Dunwich?) or all that close to the sea. But having seen the episode twice now, I don’t mind that any more. I don’t think it was supposed to be realistic. It’s an English rural idyll – unobtainable. I love the high angle of the shot, and then the sense of almost claustrophobia at the cottage itself – the narrow lane, the fences, the closed door, the kitchen counter like a barrier. It’s too much a retreat – shut off from the real world. It was never going to happen, and I’m glad of that. This is all only my opinion, of course, but I couldn’t see an ending there as being in character for either of them. As many people have already said so eloquently, this series is ultimately about sacrifice and what these characters have had to give up to protect their country. In that context, the White Cliffs of Dover shot makes perfect sense, as does Harry’s return to work, and the strong sense that the department will carry on defeating the bad guys who want to kill us.
Compelling drama – thank you to all concerned.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - kaytea411 - 25-10-2011 12:27 AM
(24-10-2011 08:33 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: The happiness of Harry when Ruth asked him to share together their retirement in her dream home was so heart breaking....I do not understand why Harry and Ruth were not allowed some happiness before her death....
...I truly feel sorry for Harry...
In fact, I liked the episode. It was fast-pacing and exciting.
I will miss Spooks, ....British TV at its best!
I just wanted to highlight and echo some of your sentiments....
I thought the Series was fantastic! Spooks has been addicting and wonderful at creating a fictional world that swings emotions and heart rates high and low (the wall of remembrance was something else). Thanks to all involved.
As for 10.6 itself, I'm less satisfied. Not because it wasn't well done. It was exciting, true to form and I do think the series ENDED, but I was left wanting.....
If H/R had just had a few 'real moments' together, I think her death would be more acceptable, even mean more. Like you, I hoped for some happiness on their part or at least more signs of it. Just the simple, normal tale-tells that strengthen and confirm their closeness/relationship: her shoes or coat in his house; references to unseen, personal moments; additional phone or email exchanges; and, of course, a non-disaster-related kiss or two.
I would have also felt less sorry for Harry. As it is, we experience not only his devasting loss of Ruth, whom he loved & trusted -- but also the lack of having created the memories, the moments, you need in such circumstances. They were so close to it.... and now, having nothing else -- he's back on the Grid where it will eventually consume him to where he no longer knows who he is (which he has mentioned, which Ruth mentioned, and as Tom demonstrated).
In terms of an acceptable finale -- there seems to be extreme points of view between happily ever after and death/despair/destruction.
What about the possibilities of everything in between? Certainly a mix is more fitting.
One last thanks to all involved in the forum: administrators and contributors alike.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - pookster - 25-10-2011 01:11 AM
On second viewing ... its still powerful drama - sad and emotive. The music accompanying the beach scene was the same when Ruth left at 5.5 - its was poignant then and just as now. Kudos, the writers and the actors should hold their heads high. Brilliantly performed and a perfect finish. Its not a happy ending that in a perfect world many would have liked but then real life rarely produces one.