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+--- Thread: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation (/thread-861.html)
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - AnnMarie - 18-07-2010 04:23 AM
Y'all are pretty good...how clever to remember and suggest that perhaps Mr. A's comments were deliberate misdirection. I just haven't been able to accept that Lucas' frantic need to talk to Harry was simply a vehicle to the "where in the world is Harry" arc. Of course, perhaps it just got lost in the overall plotting...but it would be great to see it addressed in 9 if for no other reason than it would stop bugging me!
BTW, love the Lucas McNorth is on vacation sig...priceless!
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 18-07-2010 05:19 AM
(18-07-2010 02:59 AM)TygerBright Wrote: hah! that's jumping the gun.. no one has said anything definitive yet about Lucas being the traitor *buries fingers in ears and head in sand* .. and I somehow don't think they'll make him a triple/quadruple/quintuple agent... that would be too easy (if ever so slightly confusing)
I wish someone else would drop a hint about some other character... guessing gag order though (which proves that RA's hints were deliberate and had the blessing of BBC/Kudos)
Well, the triple/quadruple/quintuple agent thing is not that farfetched, 24's 7th season had one of the old characters Tony Almeida come back from the "dead" and be a good guy pretending to be a bad guy pretending to be a good guy pretending to be a bad guy and then found out as a guy who is out on his own mission to get revenge for his dead wife and child.
So it wouldn't be that uncommon, although it would be enough to drive me to insanity!
I was already ready to go cliff jumping after the Tony situation!(18-07-2010 04:23 AM)AnnMarie Wrote: Y'all are pretty good...how clever to remember and suggest that perhaps Mr. A's comments were deliberate misdirection. I just haven't been able to accept that Lucas' frantic need to talk to Harry was simply a vehicle to the "where in the world is Harry" arc. Of course, perhaps it just got lost in the overall plotting...but it would be great to see it addressed in 9 if for no other reason than it would stop bugging me!
Sometimes those little scenes gets overlooked, but I understand your frustration. I always look at the little subtle things and wish that the writers would elaborate!
Hopefully we will have a happy ending for Lucas, god knows he deserves one!
(18-07-2010 04:23 AM)AnnMarie Wrote: BTW, love the Lucas McNorth is on vacation sig...priceless!
The thought of Lucas on vacation is rather amusing, I don't think he even understands the purpose of vacations!
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - Maike - 18-07-2010 06:39 AM
Hmmm...I always thought that Lucas needed to talk to Harry to reconcile properly and tell him that he doesn't blame him for his imprisonment any more. I expected Lucas' and Harry's relationship to be much improved in series 8 but we saw little of that. BTW I think Lucas' idea that Harry could have actively sold him out to the Russians (in contrast to not trying very hard to get him back) was pretty outrageous. I can imagine a situation where such actions would seem advisable, in exchange of a much needed favour, but would our Harry really go so far and sacrifice Lucas?
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 18-07-2010 06:55 AM
(18-07-2010 06:39 AM)Maike Wrote: Hmmm...I always thought that Lucas needed to talk to Harry to reconcile properly and tell him that he doesn't blame him for his imprisonment any more. I expected Lucas' and Harry's relationship to be much improved in series 8 but we saw little of that. BTW I think Lucas' idea that Harry could have actively sold him out to the Russians (in contrast to not trying very hard to get him back) was pretty outrageous. I can imagine a situation where such actions would seem advisable, in exchange of a much needed favour, but would our Harry really go so far and sacrifice Lucas?
I always saw it as Harry's hand being forced and was unable to bring Lucas home no matter how much he wanted. Maybe someone from higher up, like Richard Dalby or the HS or maybe even the PM didn't think confronting the Russians to get one agent back was worth the trouble and forced Harry to stand down. Or it was something like since Lucas was captured in Moscow, Harry couldn't plan any rescue mission because it could be seen as an attack on Moscow, which would start a war, or maybe he tried making deals but the Russians refused to take any offer.
They never really explained why it took Harry 8 years to get Lucas back or how Lucas was even captured and the situations surrounding it, I am hoping Series 9 will give us more of what happened.
I think it's understandable that Lucas blames Harry or even think Harry may be involved if the stakes are high enough. No matter how outrageous it may sound to us, I think in Lucas's mind, after all he has suffered, the doubts are seeping through and he is weary of trusting anyone again. Who knows what the Russians have told him in prison.
I am just hoping for a happy ending for Lucas and Harry, god knows we have enough sad endings on this show, would it kill the writers to give us a happy one?
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - WhiteSwan - 18-07-2010 02:35 PM
(18-07-2010 06:39 AM)Maike Wrote: Hmmm...I always thought that Lucas needed to talk to Harry to reconcile properly and tell him that he doesn't blame him for his imprisonment any more. I expected Lucas' and Harry's relationship to be much improved in series 8 but we saw little of that. BTW I think Lucas' idea that Harry could have actively sold him out to the Russians (in contrast to not trying very hard to get him back) was pretty outrageous. I can imagine a situation where such actions would seem advisable, in exchange of a much needed favour, but would our Harry really go so far and sacrifice Lucas?
It seems pretty outrageous, but apparently that's what Lucas really thought. And he must have had a good reason for it! Well, maybe Harry selling Lucas to the Russians is the "ultimate betrayal" which is meant to be a theme in series 9? To me it seems that Harry does look very guilty when Lucas says to Connie "I spent 8 years in a Russion cell because I stayed loyal to my country".
It would be great if they finally told us in series 9 why and how Lucas was arrested, who was really responsible for it and why Harry and MI5 abandoned him for 8 years. And just like BravoNine (and suppose many others) I would love to see a proper talk between Harry and Lucas and a reconciliation". I so much long for a happy ending for the two of them!!
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - Silktie - 18-07-2010 04:40 PM
I don't think Harry had much choice in the matter of getting Lucas back. All he could do was ask nicely, or offer some sort of deal, like an exchange of agents. If the Russians didn't want to play ball, there's absolutely nothing Harry could do about it. Maybe the question we should be asking ourselves is why the Russians suddenly decided to accept the latest deal Harry offered?
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - Lukyan Lyubof - 18-07-2010 05:15 PM
Hmm maybe the explanation Lucas gave in the car of agreeing to work for the Russians was true; that would explain their eagerness to give Lucas back as I'm pretty sure MI5 managed to catch a few more people than the one they gave back
Having said that it just seems too obvious
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 18-07-2010 07:40 PM
(18-07-2010 05:15 PM)Lukyan Lyubof Wrote: Hmm maybe the explanation Lucas gave in the car of agreeing to work for the Russians was true; that would explain their eagerness to give Lucas back as I'm pretty sure MI5 managed to catch a few more people than the one they gave back
Having said that it just seems too obvious
Well, didn't they actually address that issue when Lucas first came back?
In 7.2, we found out that Lucas and Arkady Kachimov were working together and Lucas was giving him information with Elizavieta as his handler. Wasn't that why Ros had the whole taser tag moment in the park and they brought him onto the Grid to sort of interrogate him? Lucas said something like he thought Harry knew that he was working for Kachimov because he told Harry that he said yes to the Russians deal so that he could get home since he clearly couldn't count on Harry or MI5 to get him back, and Harry was angry because he thought Lucas was just joking when he said that during the car ride. But Lucas apparently was only agreeing to spy for the Russians so that he could get back but he was really pretending to be on the Russians side, and then MI5 was able to use Lucas to get Kachimov to do what they wanted and get to the position where Harry killed him.
I thought the thread through Series 7 was that MI5 was able to use Lucas to get into the FSB since the Russians still believed that Lucas was working for them as a double agent.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - Maike - 18-07-2010 07:57 PM
The Russians never actually used Lucas as a spy. In 7.2. they tested him, he had to find out something they already knew. In 7.4. they tested him again, they told him that they did bring forward the time of the explosion and he was supposed to do nothing about it. Both times he remained loyal to MI5 but tricked the Russians into believing that he is loyal to THEM. Since then they left him in peace and he has been of no real use to them and that has always puzzled me. Were his actions in 7.7. and 7.8. enough to convinced them that in fact he is working against them? Did those that hunted him (Victor whatshisname, apparently the replacement for Kachimov) even knew that he was supposed to be a double agent?
For all we know they might come back and actually demand something that is important to them from him, not just a test. And wouldn't one expect that they won't let him get away alive should they find out he's not loyal?
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 18-07-2010 08:41 PM
(18-07-2010 07:57 PM)Maike Wrote: The Russians never actually used Lucas as a spy. In 7.2. they tested him, he had to find out something they already knew. In 7.4. they tested him again, they told him that they did bring forward the time of the explosion and he was supposed to do nothing about it. Both times he remained loyal to MI5 but tricked the Russians into believing that he is loyal to THEM. Since then they left him in peace and he has been of no real use to them and that has always puzzled me. Were his actions in 7.7. and 7.8. enough to convinced them that in fact he is working against them? Did those that hunted him (Victor whatshisname, apparently the replacement for Kachimov) even knew that he was supposed to be a double agent?
For all we know they might come back and actually demand something that is important to them from him, not just a test. And wouldn't one expect that they won't let him get away alive should they find out he's not loyal?
Maybe Series 9 will answer that issue because I have always been rather confused about Lucas's relationships with the Russians, especially in 7.7 and 7.8 where Lucas was sent into Moscow to help Harry with the whole Sugarhorse deal and then the racing across London thing with Ros and Connie. One would think the Russians would have figured out he's not on their side? And if they did, wouldn't they want him dead? Or is that deal Lucas supposedly made only with Kachimov?