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RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - nothingisasitseems - 23-10-2010 05:46 PM
Series 9.8 Spoiler: show
I still maintain that it would be very un-Spooks like to have made Lucas' betrayal so obvious over the course of the Season unless it's all a bluff.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 23-10-2010 08:09 PM
(23-10-2010 11:46 AM)WhiteSwan Wrote: For me that would be the worst possible ending, because Lucas throwing himself off that building would be such a disgraceful, terrible, cowardly way to go - I'm absolutely horrified by the thought of it! But as the writers are about to completely destroy his character anyway by trying to tell us that all we had learnt about Lucas in the last two series was just a lie, I'm afraid it's not totally unlikely.
I think if Lucas does take his own life in order to end all of this and allow the others to live, it wouldn't be cowardly, it would be in Lucas's character to sacrifice himself so that the others can come out of this alive. And it wouldn't be destroying his character, it would be saying that there is still a shred of decency in Lucas.
We know that the bad guys obviously need Lucas to get stuff done, so it would be feasible that Lucas would take himself out of the equation so that the bad guys won't have this leverage, and in that sense, he would give the others the chance to fight back.
I can see Lucas doing that, and in a way, that would be redeeming his actions of stealing the file and framing another innocent agent.
(23-10-2010 12:26 PM)BoHenley Wrote: Lucas has betrayed his team by stealing that file, setting up that other agent, and whatever it was he's done with Vaughan in his past. He's digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself, and obviously Vaughan's demands will become more extreme.
I'm still waiting for the writers to explain to me what Vaughn and Lucas did that was so horrible that he could hold over Lucas's head even after 15 years, that it would be so strong enough for Lucas to turn against his own people.
As for Lucas digging himself into a hole, he seems quite good at doing that.
(23-10-2010 12:26 PM)BoHenley Wrote: I also think Lucas's only out at the end may be to take his own life, rather than cause the deaths of others and face imprisonment again (and interrogation). Do I like it - NO! But the torture and the years in prison would have to unhinge even the bravest and most loyal agent. Sacrificing one's self to save others is not cowardice, in my opinion. Others will disagree, of course.
I agree that if Lucas is truly "bad" as they've been showing him to be, then the exit I can see is that Lucas taking his own life to make sure that Vaughn can't use him against MI5 and that he can't use Lucas to harm the others. I can see Lucas sacrificing himself and telling Harry that the only way for this to end is Lucas dying, but since Lucas doesn't want Harry to have Lucas's blood on his hands, he will do it himself and end all of this so that no one will get caught up in this web of lies and deceit.
I somehow don't think Lucas can face another imprisonment on his own side, it will destroy him even more than those 8 years in Russia. At least then he can hold out against the enemy, but if he's being held in England, then there is no escape, and for Lucas, it would most definitely destroy whatever is left in his already messed up psyche. I can't see Lucas surviving prison in England.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - RedClover - 24-10-2010 12:07 AM
I want to know how the Chinese figure in all this. Why do they want Lucas? What if Lucas ends up in a Chinese prison? Eeek!
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BravoNine - 24-10-2010 12:43 AM
(24-10-2010 12:07 AM)RedClover Wrote: I want to know how the Chinese figure in all this. Why do they want Lucas? What if Lucas ends up in a Chinese prison? Eeek!
I don't think Lucas can survive another prison sentence, his psyche has already been messed up enough after 8 years in a Russian hell hole, another prison sentence would just destroy him to the point that he won't even have any coherent function. It's already pretty miraculous that Lucas survived 8 years in Russia and still able to retain most of his coherent brain functions, another hit like that would just end him.
I hope Harry will at least save Lucas from the Chinese, or whatever that's going on.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - WhiteSwan - 24-10-2010 12:48 AM
Quite frankly I can't think of any situation, which would justify a suicide in Lucas' case.
If he's on the run and finally cornered by MI5 then the honourable choice would be not to kill any more people and not to kill himself but to surrender and face the consequences of his actions. Of course this would be extremely hard for him to do, given his 8 years imprisonment in Russia, but I would have a lot of respect for him if he did.
The same is true for the situation when it's just Harry on his own facing Lucas. I'm sure Harry doesn't want or need to kill him - as I understood it he gave the order to find Lucas and to bring him in at any cost, meaning dead or alive, but he didn't give the order to kill him at any cost. So Lucas doesn't have to take his own life in order to save Harry the trouble killing him. Again, he could just surrender.
And he certainly doesn't have to kill himself to save other people from Vaughn (or the people behind him). He blackmails Lucas to get information, but if Lucas decides just not to give that information or if he's no longer able to get the information, then the only person in trouble is Lucas. I can't see how there could be a threat to other people, which would be solved by Lucas taking his own life.
That's why for me personally a suicide could never be justified and it would be a painfully disgraceful and cowardly ending. It would mean that Lucas apparently did something extremely bad and then didn't have the courage to face the consequences.
But who knows, the writers may still surprise us with an intelligent ending!
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - BoHenley - 24-10-2010 01:41 AM
It depends how tortured Lucas is inside his own head. From just the trailers for episode 6, he's definitely losing it.
But I certainly agree with you, an intelligent resolution would be a welcome surprise - but that won't come until S10. I hope Lucas surrenders, that gives us a chance to have the character back at some stage, but I think a shocking ending is more likely. It IS Spooks, and S9 has to end with a cliff-hanger for S10.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - theeyeshaveit - 24-10-2010 01:14 PM
I have been listening to an extensive interview RA recorded one month before the end of filming in which there is no hint, and seems no likelihood whatever from what he says that Lucas will be leaving Spooks in the known future. They still had episode 1 to do because they had had trouble finding a boat, but it sounded like he had at least seen a script for ep 8 and he says that 'the ticking bomb at the climax involves the lives of our team'.
When talking about how people exit the show, he says about Lucas' exit 'they haven't made a decision about how its going to be, when it's going to be, I mean we don't know if Spooks is going to go on. If it does, I don't know - we just don't know what is going to happen to the characters'.
RA also says he has asked them for a non violent death but he has no idea how they will achieve that. Being pushed, falling or jumping off a building does not seem to fit that bill to me.
RA also spoke of his 2011 big projects as Strike Back and Spooks with no hint of another big thing. He mentioned he had a project between Spooks and Xmas this year which he could not talk about but expected a press release about it before the interview aired (on 19/9), and that would have been Captain America.
From all this, some of what is happening and what the BBC previews talk about seems a bit incompatible with RA's interview. I feel pretty sure The Hobbit was not in the frame when he did the interview and if he was scheduled to die in episode 8, he did not seem to know about it at the time of this interview. Maybe they had just not told him yet, but given there was at least a month of filming and post production yet to be done, maybe The Hobbit did come into the picture in that time and things changed, including Lucas' story line and possible ending. Richard also comments in the interview about the scripts being a work in progress and how they rely on the editors to put it together and make sense of what they have done.
I am sort of back to hoping again that Lucas will be alright.
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - Maike - 24-10-2010 02:29 PM
Not sure if you all saw the Radio Times listing for episode 7?
Series 9 Spoiler: show
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - SPOOK91 - 24-10-2010 03:58 PM
Series 9.7 Radio times Spoiler: show
RE: Series 9 Rumours & Speculation - theeyeshaveit - 25-10-2010 07:35 AM
Series 9 Radio Times Spoiler: show