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7.2 [re-watch] - JHyde - 22-05-2011 06:59 AM
Ros goes rock star on a hotel room, Harry takes his revenge and Lucas eventually re-joins the team.
Discuss!
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - Kazters - 22-05-2011 11:45 AM
I have to say one of my fav spooks scenes is ros comming back fromt he akward drink with harry and properly trashing that hotel room. she really just dosnt know what to do with how she is feeling, its rare to see her at a loss like that i think its onlt one of what 3 times we ever see her cry when her adam recruits her after what her father does adams death and again in s8..
i think the end of this ep as well really hits home that ros is now in charge but this ep is driven by revenge especialy by harry. Lucas seems to jump right back in with no problem!
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - A Cousin - 23-05-2011 03:57 PM
This one is going to take a couple of viewings for me to fully absorb, I think.
General thoughts in no certain order:
I think there is at least an effort to rationalize Ros' sudden loyalty to Section D in the bar scene. She does mention her many crappy choices and that she was ready to come in from the cold and commit completely. Whether it works or not, I dunno, but the effort is there so I accept it and move on.
Random shallow moment: How cute is Harry leaning against Ros hotel room door?
Not sure that I buy that one breached cable at the bottom of the ocean can bring the whole of the internet in the UK to a stand still? I get the distributed denial-of-service attack idea but I don't think I buy that the Russians would have invested (financially and militarily) in the kind of submarine they have to do it? I think there would be simpler, cheaper just as effective ways to do that. That said, Spooks is doing what Spooks does which is take a kernel of truth and spin it into something bright and shiny and exciting.
PF is in really good form this episode, esp. with RA. There is a real tension between these two characters that hasn't been seen before. PF and RA's generosity as actors really shows in this episode. They are both really subtle actors. Lucas needs trust and Harry needs loyalty. Not sure they will ever truly be able to meet in the middle there?
I find Lucas to be very needy and I don't trust him yet. Nor should Harry, IMO. Bad call on Harry for not following his initial instincts to have Lucas debriefed for several months and then checked into Tring for an open ended stay. I think the decision to take Lucas back is more emotional than operational.
Why does Lucas wait until he gets caught to let Harry and Ros know that he is out for Kachimov's blood too?
Interesting that it is Jo calling for something rather more final in retribution for Adam's death? (Is that enough?) Totally shocked by Harry gunning Kachimov down. Is this the first time we see him kill pretty much on whim? Despite Kachimov's sh*tty comments in that scene, I am torn by Harry's decision on that one. It is an inhumane way to keep his humanity in tact.
I like the idea of Lucas' photographic memory. That's a cool idea.
Does Elizaveta still love Lucas? She sure does tell him that he is a liar a lot and her Have you always been like this? seems very passive agressive. Her line to Lucas struck me: Happiness is not getting what you want. It's being happy with what you have. Pertinent words for Lucas, I think. He always seems to be looking for something from others.
That's all for now....
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - Silktie - 24-05-2011 06:30 PM
Hee, I think Harry speaks for most of us when he asks Malcolm: "And am I going to understand the next bit?" The technical stuff in this episode is above my comprehension, so I just go with it.
What I enjoy most about this episode is the parallel between Harry and Kachimov. Both are masterful players of the spying game, and here they are not only playing for the loyalty of Lucas, but also for the interests of their respective countries. It's top class Cold War stuff, and I love it. It's interesting how both of them are trying to understand the emotional and intellectual make-up of the other, and how both are using Lucas to do it. Like Harry says, they want the smell of each other.
Kachimov's use of Elizabetha to be Lucas' handler is a masterstroke, but perhaps also shows that, like Harry, he isn't sure that he has Lucas' loyalty, hence the emotional blackmail of involving his ex-wife. Perhaps he hopes that Lucas' need to have a connection with Elizabetha will keep him in line?
In my view, Harry is correct to wait until Lucas has been debriefed before trusting him. As the leader it is his responsibility to ensure that Lucas is still loyal, and he cannot afford to go on emotion and welcome him back with open arms until he is certain of this. Count me in the camp of not quite understanding Lucas' strategy - for someone who is so eager to have Harry's trust, it seems unlikely that he would not have gone to him and come clean as a way to get that trust instead of lying to him and playing a high risk game that could have backfired.
I agree with A Cousin that Harry should have forced Lucas to have that debriefing after all, but I think Harry after Adam's death is somewhat unbalanced and emotionally vulnerable, and perhaps makes the decision to allow Lucas back on the team for those reasons rather than intellectually. I like that for once we get to see the impact of losing one of his officers on him, as well as on Malcolm for that matter. Malcolm calling Adam 'admirable' was wonderful - in that one comment we get to see how much he meant to Malcolm.
Re Harry shooting Kachimov, it is a morally indefensible act, and purely based on the desire for revenge in my view. We know that Harry has never shied away from the darker parts of the job - in season 1 he is established as someone who will order the assassination of others (Helen's deep-fry killer), and as someone who has done it himself (he blew up a car to kill Johnny Marks but killed his brother instead). Also, he is very eager to kill Patrick McCann all through episode 1.6. The difference is that this time there is really no operational justification for the killing. My impression is that he hadn't intended to do it until Kachimov started sprouting that stuff about how Adam was only a resource that can be replaced, and Harry snapped. Despite all this, I may have cheered a little bit when he did it, because like the team, I am in deep mourning about Adam's death and wanted to see Kachimov get what was coming to him.
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - HellsBells - 25-05-2011 01:46 PM
I also didn't really understand if the technical side of this episode, ie tapping a cable and destroying computers, is a viable possibility but just go with it.
This has to be amongst one of my favourite episodes. The interaction between Harry and Lucas foremost but the there are also wonderful scenes between Lucas and Malcolm, Ros and Ben. Ros and Beletsky in the gym changing room, a classic Ros scene. I think PF acting is really excellent, the hurt in Harry's face when Ros tells him Lucas is a double agent, wonderful.
I think Lucas wanted to bring Kachimov to Harry by himself to prove to Harry that he was MI5 and could be trusted, but Harry found out first so Lucas had to tell Harry his plan.
I still think Harry was wrong to kill Kachimov, as Kachimov was stating the truth about the life he and Harry lead, and maybe Harry could not face that fact.
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - A Cousin - 25-05-2011 03:18 PM
(25-05-2011 01:46 PM)HellsBells Wrote: This has to be amongst one of my favourite episodes. The interaction between Harry and Lucas foremost but the there are also wonderful scenes between Lucas and Malcolm, Ros and Ben. Ros and Beletsky in the gym changing room, a classic Ros scene. I think PF acting is really excellent, the hurt in Harry's face when Ros tells him Lucas is a double agent, wonderful.
I still don't really understand why Harry let Lucas back in at the end though. Nothing had changed for Lucas except that he proved that he and Harry had the same agenda re: Kachimov. Lucas is still damaged and needy. That is what makes him so fascinating to me. But as Silktie suggests, I don't think Harry is making his decisions from a strictly operational place in this episode. Even he says that he can't trust his own judgement in the bar with Ros.
(25-05-2011 01:46 PM)HellsBells Wrote: I think Lucas wanted to bring Kachimov to Harry by himself to prove to Harry that he was MI5 and could be trusted, but Harry found out first so Lucas had to tell Harry his plan.
OK - I can understand this. Harry does freeze Lucas out in that first debriefing. Esp. after Lucas all but begs to be let back in. But still, seems to me that Lucas could have shared this a bit sooner and not waited until Harry beat him to the punch? I guess this further illustrates the really great tension between the two characters.
(25-05-2011 01:46 PM)HellsBells Wrote: I still think Harry was wrong to kill Kachimov, as Kachimov was stating the truth about the life he and Harry lead, and maybe Harry could not face that fact.
I've been thinking about this a lot. I think Harry is very much aware of that fact, but chooses his humanity in that moment. While Harry does not meet Kachimov with the intention of doing it, I think he knows exactly what he is doing. I think that it is a coldly calculated decision made in the moment. For Harry, killing Kachimov is simply retribution not only for Adam but Lucas as well. The look on his face at the shwoop moment as he contemplates the gun is not one of triumph, it is one of regret. He decides to do it and accept the consequences.
Additional thoughts:
I had to giggle in the opening credits. There are snippets of Adam getting blown up, Lucas being mysterious, Ros kicking ass, Jo being resourceful, Malcolm being intelligent, Connie being analytical, Harry being intense and Ben on the phone. That was the best they could do for poor Ben?
Malcolm's reaction to Adams death is interesting. Is he guarding his feelings from Lucas because he doesn't trust him yet or does is he really that numb? Just thinking about one of the on-going theme of Spooks about what the job turns them into.
I love watching Ros' face just before she begins her impersonation of Keith Moon. So much going on! Must have been a fun scene to film. Rock on, Hermoine!
I hate to say it, but Dolby is right to warn Harry to step back and not give into his personal desires in targeting the Russian Operation in London.
The humor is back in S7. I really like that. Ros' quip about her split ends, Lucas' crack about Adam being a horrible driver and taking the only chocolate doughnut, Harry to Malcolm about understanding the science. I esp. love that Neil Cross & Ben Richards gave Harry a topper in that moment with Malcolm, e.g. his Again I ask.... I really missed that aspect and am glad that it is back.
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - Silktie - 25-05-2011 04:57 PM
(25-05-2011 03:18 PM)A Cousin Wrote: I hate to say it, but Dolby is right to warn Harry to step back and not give into his personal desires in targeting the Russian Operation in London.
Agreed. In their first meeting Dolby is actually understanding towards Harry, and Harry is the one that reacts almost childishly by intimating that Dolby is making decisions to enhance his promotion. However, in the second meeting he's a real git. He is just so condescending and annoying, that I love to hate him from that point forward.
Although, Harry was right that the Russians were planning something in the end, so even though his motivations weren't pure, there is also probably part of him that recognised the threat Russia and Kachimov posed to Britain.
I liked that guy who led the JIC meeting, who was also in episode 1 - he reminded me of that English character in West Wing, Bernard (the guy responsible for the paintings etc).
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - HellsBells - 26-05-2011 01:40 PM
(25-05-2011 04:57 PM)Silktie Wrote: I liked that guy who led the JIC meeting, who was also in episode 1 - he reminded me of that English character in West Wing, Bernard (the guy responsible for the paintings etc).
I liked him as well, but the character didn't even have a name did he? He seemed to be some sort of representative from the Prime Minister's office, I guess Nicolas Blake was busy!
It was good to see Harry having to justify his actions to a committee. Okay he went ahead and ignored those orders but that gave a more realistic feel to the episode and also showed that Harry would do what he thought was best not just blindly follow orders.
When Malcolm said that Adam was very admirable it also came across as though he didn't really like Adam, maybe I just 'read' that wrong.
It is very far-fetched that Lucas was allowed back to the Grid so quickly, but this is Spooks, and we can hardly wait for 6 months while Lucas is de-briefed! Maybe he was de-briefed while working on the Grid, and Harry, or Ros kept him under surveilance.
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - JHyde - 26-05-2011 01:59 PM
(26-05-2011 01:40 PM)HellsBells Wrote: When Malcolm said that Adam was very admirable it also came across as though he didn't really like Adam, maybe I just 'read' that wrong.
My reading of this is that Malcolm grasped for something that might summarise Adam and how good he was (both as a person and as a colleague) and realised that there really really wasn't one word to do so. So he settled for something simple. It's not that he didn't appreciate Adam - quite the reverse.
RE: 7.2 [re-watch] - Kazters - 26-05-2011 06:02 PM
i to found malcom talking to Lucas about how he felt about Adam strange, i always thought the got on well i know adam pushed him but i felt he didnt really like him to! but i also felt that he was so used to this happening to his collegues that perhaps he stopped trying to get to know them more.