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Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - Nitrus - 05-06-2010 11:16 AM
Watch and discuss!
Talking points:
- Danny's funeral
- The bombing of London
- Martine McCutcheon
- Shining Dawn's beliefs
- Ruth vs. Profressor
This thread will run for two weeks.
RE: Episode 1 Discussion [rewatch] - JHyde - 05-06-2010 11:25 AM
Season 4 is one of my favourite seasons and one of the reasons for that is that it had fantastic guest stars who were well suited to their roles all the way through. Martine was only the first but she is so well cast here and gets some really funny lines and I love watching her go up against Harry.
I love that Harry goes back into the church to get Ruth. The first time I watched this episode was the first time I thought there might be 'something there' as I hadn't seen any extras for the show that linked them together. Totally of my own accord! No spin!
I find the scene with Zaf trying to talk the French girl down very sad. She made some really bad choices but here was Zaf trying to talk sense into her. It wasn't just something you do because she had information, he genuinely believes in redemption for everyone. Ah Zaf......
Ruth playing the dumb girl to get information from the professor is one that is both very funny and very sad at the same time.
Also loved Adam and Zaf and their banter. "Yeah. Babbling."
Hang on, I just realised - some of what I might have said may well be in episode 2. Ah well....
(OK, Nitrus changed it after I posted.)
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - Aria - 05-06-2010 04:12 PM
Really loved this 2-parter, it was a wonderful way to start the new series. Like JHyde says, the guest stars in this series in particular were brilliant and these eps set the standard. Loved the Harry and Ruth scene at the beginning where she reminds him of his assertion in 3.10 that there will be a time to grieve later.
Adam was very good in these episodes, very strong and decisive and his scenes with Martine McCutcheon were brilliant especially near the end when he won't leave her. I also liked his scene on the grid with the Professor when he's talking about the dog. lol
Anna Chancellor's introduction as Juliet was great and we got some background on Harry as a bonus. My favourite scenes involved Harry and the Home Secretary, the first time that politician makes an appearance on the show. Jeff Rawle was excellent and his scenes with PF were very good, I especially liked it when he talks about the proletariat dream from his student days and Harry comments that "they still have those dreams on file somewhere". LOL
I didn't like the Professor at all. I'm not sure if it was because of the actor or that he was so cynical and unsympathetic and basically very rude and demeaning to poor Ruth. She handled him brilliantly and really excelled in this outing from the Grid. The only part I didn't really get was why the American FBI agent was involved in Shining Dawn? It wasn't about money so did he believe in their cause as he was very willing to sell them out when he was caught? Also loved Malcolm and Colin, they were really funny especially when trying to impress Tash!
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - JHyde - 05-06-2010 04:24 PM
Oh God! How did I forget to mention Juliet? One of the best things about this two parter, introducing a dynamic that ended up being one of my favourites in the show so far.
I was very sorry Jeff Rawle didn't get to hang around as HS. He also got to set up the great line about Jamie Oliver.
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - Silktie - 06-06-2010 02:49 PM
These are two cracking episodes that I really enjoy. The thing I like about them is that they seem to get the balance between plot, action and character moments almost perfect. I also think it's nice that after 3.10, we don't get another Islamic terrorist plot, and also that we see throughout these two episode how much the team members are still affected by Danny's death.
These episodes tell us a lot about Adam, Ruth and Harry's characters in particular, and I think it establishes Zaf's character quite well too. We see here how far Adam is prepared to go, when he hangs that guy over the railing, and after he falls, he takes only one second to absorb the shock of causing another person's death, before using what happened to terrify the other bloke into giving up the information. Then later, with Tash, we see the extraordinary amount of compassion Adam has, when he refuses to leave her to die alone. The thing that makes it remarkable is that he didn't risk his own life because the operation demanded it, or because she is an important person, but purely out of compassion. It is this that makes early Adam my favourite out of all the team leaders we've had to date.
Juliet's introduction also allows us to see Harry's extraordinary sense of honour and morality. As soon as she begins to blackmail him, he immediately offers his resignation and comes clean to the HS, and it is not as though she was trying to get state secrets out of him either - she only wanted more access. And he is also a big enough man to realise that Juliet's ruthlessness will be useful in the position she is up for, and in the end doesn't block her from getting the job despite their personal differences.
I also thought this episode showcased Ruth's strengths extremely well. She knows she is not a field agent, but her intelligence allows her to see exactly how to play the professor to get the information they need. It also seems that some of her compassion rubs off on him by the end.
I find the ending bittersweet, as we hear people complaining about the Security Services not stopping the first blast. Nobody knows, however, that they foiled another three bomb blasts in the meantime. It is a thankless job, where only your failures are known, and never your successes.
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - Tea Lady - 06-06-2010 09:45 PM
(06-06-2010 02:49 PM)Silktie Wrote: The thing that makes it remarkable is that he didn't risk his own life because the operation demanded it, or because she is an important person, but purely out of compassion. It is this that makes early Adam my favourite out of all the team leaders we've had to date.
Yes I quite agree your point about Adam Silktie. He is my favourtie too because of that reason. All the other section chiefs seem to lack this, or don't have it to the same degree, IMO.
Yes, two great episodes even though the start of 4.1 was cut because it was shown just after 7/7. Maybe we got more of the church scene because of that. I loved the interaction between Harry and Ruth in the church. Harry basically fled back in to get Ruth, although after saying that "he needed her," he then shoved his coat into her hands to hang up, when they got back to the Grid.
I thought Ruth was great. She was totally out of her comfort zone but she knew what she had to do. People's lives were at risk. She had to think quickly.
I loved Tash (MM) in this episode. She played it really well and when she stands up to Harry! Also Malcolm and Colin seemed to like a young lady showing some interest in their creations when probably no-one else on the Grid really does.
Juliet was great and I have to say, one of my favourite characters and one of the best introductions into the show. You immediately got to know her and wanted more.
As I said before, two great episodes to start the series off, and any episode that shows Harry ripping his tie off in the first few minutes has me hooked
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - lwhite53 - 06-06-2010 10:28 PM
Loved these eps -- great way to start a new series. The writing was superb, with sharp, direct political dialogue and some really good shows of antipathy between the Americans and Brits, such as:
Harry: "No, sketchy as in your knowledge of Al Qaeda when they were learning to fly and sunning themselves in Florida" and Boyd: "Contrary to perceived wisdom, we're not responsible for everything that's wrong in the world."
Also loved the relationship between Harry and the HS --one of the few times we've seen H being friendly toward a politician. And the HS got the best line of the ep, imo: "I give you my word, Harry, that you have my full support. OK, admittedly it's the word of a devious, lying politician but it's all I have right now." Just brilliant writing!
The intro of Juliet was terrific and just by H's initial demeanor (he was very relaxed and actually smiled), you knew they had some kind of history.
But best of all, in terms of character development, was Ruth. Her first foray out in the field and she gets chased by a man with a very big gun! She plays the dumb girl, gets the info they need from the cocksure Curtis, and then proceeds to tear him apart intellectually. She was absolutely terrific in this ep.
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - A Cousin - 07-06-2010 03:59 PM
And to all this I would add:
There is a little insight into future Juliet when, as the grid is swarming with Americans, she mis-quotes an American Beat poet at (and I mean at) Harry as she turns the black-mail knife at the end of the balcony scene. (Thank you lwhite53 for the commentaries. That had been driving me crazy!)
Some good character development for Zaf too, consisting of one line: "Life is never pointless." Kind of sums Zaf up I think. It is the reason he can both know the Elgar cello concerto and drive around in a car that has a 280 rear horse power twin turbo as a spy and enjoy it!
As for Ruth and Curtis, well this is the episode that I really started to love her and her blistering intellect and compassion. My favorite exchange is this one:
R: But great achievements as well...um...Mozart, Michelangelo...
C: Rather obvious examples. The Big Mac. Andrew Lloyd Weber. The cell phone.
R: I rather enjoyed Les Miz.
It is so subtle because, of course, Les Miz is not an Andrew Lloyd Weber musical.
I also like how the writers intersperse macabre comedic moments into the episode. One of my favs is Harry's: "It also seems that we are going to have to grit our teeth and bear the presence of some cousins from Grosvenor Square who will undoubtedly bring their usual arrogance and over-bearing...(enter Americans)...willingness to share their considerable expertise on the subject." Such a great turn (and mouthful) for PF! I wonder how many takes it took?
I am glad they gave some closure for Danny with a funeral however interrupted. I felt like Ruth. It points out that there is never time to grieve. They are not allowed.
MM's character is an opportunity for "us" to experience what is happening through the eyes of a civilian thus allowing for a lot of good lines re: methods and motivations of the spooks.
Shining Dawn? Well, its extremist bulls**t, but western extremist bulls**t. Every country has their A-holes I guess. I liked how it is pointed out that England and America share this particular flavor. It also allows the exploration of the contrast between those that come up with the ideas and those that act on the ideas.
Boy this is long. I'll stop now. Sorry....
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - HellsBells - 11-06-2010 01:47 PM
Finally watched 4.1 and 4.2.
I disliked Martine McCutcheon in Spooks. I didn't feel she was acting but carrying on her role as Tiffany in 'Eastenders'. And why did they take Tash onto the Grid, wouldn't she have been interviewed elsewhere? Her whole storyline felt like it was written for a guest star who got more scene time than was necessary to the plot.
Loved the novel ideology of the terrorists, quite a change from religious or political reasons.
And of course Ruth was excellent, loved her way of handling the Professor, and seeing her out in the field.
RE: Episode 1 & 2 Discussion [rewatch] - Beatriz - 11-06-2010 04:33 PM
Me too!! At last! However I did like Martine McCutcheon, I haven't seen "Eastenders" so I can't compare... I have only seen her in Love, actually. It's true that they give her too much time on screen, but I didn't mind. I loved her little discussion with Harry about the state, it was funny.
They were two wonderful episodes, the storyline is very believable, one of these new organisations with strange ideologies about the human race, instead of commiting suicide they decided to kill people.
I agree Anna Chancellor was fantastic as Juliet. In a few scenes you know perfectly well this woman. It was funny to see Harry's discomfort working along with her.
There's no need to say I loved Ruth in both episodes, playing dumb and handling the professor perfectly well, dialect fight! This man didn't care about anything, only about himself, totally numb and without any kind of qualms. He did get me on my nerves!!
I liked that Zaf said he will stay in the Grid if his desk was near Ruth's, so cute!!
