Episode 8 Discussion

[JHyde]

I don't think Lucas and Harry are done! With their saga, I mean.

[HellsBells]

I agree JHyde, that there has to be more to the Harry/Lucas story. In 7.2 Lucas definitely implied that Harry did not seem to keen to get him back. And in season 8 Harry gave Lucas far too much leeway to make mistakes. Hope their relationship is shown more in season 9

[Silktie]

If Ros is a goner and Lucas takes over her position, Harry will not be able to afford Lucas as much leeway to make mistakes in season 9. Harry has a history of trusting his lead officers with operational decision making, but he has always set higher standards for them than for the rest of the team. I hope this will get explored.

[LucasNorthFan]

I think the writers have some things to develop between them, for instance I'd like to know more information in how much involved Harry was on Lucas' imprisonment and the consecuences in their relationship.

LNF

[JHyde]

Gah! I totally don't buy that Harry was involved in Lucas' being captured, directly or otherwise.

In any case, just so this thread isn't hijacked (we will be revisiting it in a few months once we reach it in the re-watch) I think the Harry/Lucas discussion is best reserved for the Harry and Lucas thread in the character and actor subforum.

Thanks guys.

[phoenix]

I know I'm rather late to this discussion, but I only got a chance to see 8.8 last week. Some of this is going to be in response to the various posts through out this thread. Hope that won't be problem... :]

I absolutely LOVED the ending. There's really no word for it other than abrupt. I think that it follows with the whole tone of series eight, where the entire intelligence world is in an upheaval and we don't really know what's going on. It's only in this episode that we start to see hints as to the ultimate agenda of Nightingale.

Despite the fact that most people seem to hate the "shakeycam" effect that the last two series have been shot with, I think it's a rather important expression of the story; it's rather foreboding and evokes a sense of fear and chaos in the viewer, I think. When you're watching the episodes and it's a particularly action packed sequence, don't you feel as though you're there? as if you're a journalist and covering the events first hand? Not only that, but it makes you FEEL as though your world's in a tremor, like everything's falling apart and you're not quite sure what's happening. The Nightingale arc is just that-- this major organization that we have very little information on, we don't know who they are, what they're doing, or how they're doing it. So much so, that we have no idea that they've managed to infiltrate almost every level of intelligence. It's rather jolting, I think. Shakeycam is just the physical representation of that fact.

I have to say, my favorite exchange in the episode was the banter between Lucas and Ros at Lindemann's HQ right before the awesome cat fight. [hah! I was so happy when Ros ran to throttle Sarah. Serve's her right...] I am, of course, speaking of the 'small talk'.

Lucas: "Come on, then, Ros, small talk me a little."
Ros: "Okay, em, my perfume is from the anal glands of a cat. I read that in the paper this morning."
Lucas: "It's actually the perennial gland of the civet. And not any more because they synthesize it."

I must have died laughing at this little exchange. I really liked that they were showing this friendly, almost nurturing aspect to Ros. I think the reason why I didn't like her before series 8 was because she was always portrayed as such a heartless bitch. I also loved that Lucas is so knowledgeable about what must be the most random topic to ever be discussed on a spy drama. Perennial gland of a civet, indeed.

Lucas North. Poor thing, I think he's being judged a bit harshly. The guy spent eight YEARS being tortured in a Russian prison, comes home only to realize that his wife has moved on and started this whole new life. He doesn't really have anyone in his life outside of the Grid, definitely suffering with a bit of PTSD. I don't quite understand how people weren't expecting the relationship with Sarah. He's obviously not quite all there yet. I imagine after spending eight years away, being tortured both physically and mentally, the only thing he'd want to do is get back to some semblance of normality: his job, his girlfriend, his home. It's as though if he's got these things that make up an average, everyday man's life, then he can move on.. or ignore the last eight years. The quicker he's got his ducks aligned, he can put everything else in a little box and move on. Even though he found out the truth about her, and even though she disgusts him, he's still going to feel it-- the fact that she's dead. He's going to mourn her, if only because he was using her as some sort of anchor in this world that he has to play catch up with. It's just one more thing that's stripped from him. I also wouldn't say he's pulling a Tom. I think that, while trauma from the job is something that's explored in Spooks from the beginning, the trauma that Lucas is experiencing is wholly different. It's not that the job is causing him to unravel or 'lose his soul' as with Tom and Adam's downward spiral. They became disillusioned and sort of stopped believing in what they were doing. Lucas hasn't. For him, it's rather the fall out of being left behind.

And yes, SO much to say about the Harry/Lucas dynamic but, as requested, I think I'll leave that for the actual character thread. :]

Well, I think I've bored you all enough. Can't believe I'll have to wait SOO long for 9. :| BBC America better start airing the show regularly or else I'll just have to move to Britain in October! :]

[Kazters]

I just watched ep it my epic watch of spooks has ended exactly 4 weeks after it started.

I loved the spark and banter between ros and Lucas, actualy in 7 and 8 there seemed to be something that wasnt there before perhaps.

But I'm speachless how can she survive that I love ros. i liked the level of her banter with harry its almost father daughter but its a level only she can get away with. It's a bit like Harry and Ruth who were so close to something can we bang there heads together they were really close to something on the walkway is that the closest we have seen harry get to showing emotion? he is very much on the ros scale of i dont do emotional incompetance!. Ros

my only complaint! is if this is her end (i hope it isnt, i can pretend right?) that her explosions wasnt a patch on adams and i reckon that would annoy ros

[A Cousin]

(09-07-2010 08:23 AM)Kazters Wrote:  i liked the level of her banter with harry its almost father daughter but its a level only she can get away with.

I forget when it is exactly, but at some point in S6 or S7 the Home Secretary says something to the effect of: What part of Harry did they clone to make you? The two characters are very similar which is what made the connection so strong. I shudder to think what the backlash for Harry will be on this one from an emotional level. I think he is going to be devastated with Ros' demise. I will be surprised if she's not gone for good.

[Kazters]

I think her death might affect him more than Adams

[Nia M]

I really hope for Harry's sake (and Ros' of course!) that she survives. I don't want to think about how many more losses he will have to endure

Interesting thought that, unless the characters are visibly shown to have suffered from another's departure (e.g. PTSD Adam, Ros' break-down in 7.02, and to a lesser extent Sam being relocated to GCHQ) we don't give as much thought to those who are left behind, specifically Harry. This might just be me, but apart from with Ruth's departure and Adam's death, and now Malcolm's retirement, I never really considered the impact all this must have on Harry especially, given that he's the one who's been living through them all