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**JHyde** · 05-03-2010, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I think my answer to this question is that Ruth is a marvellous character in her own right; I loved her in season 3 before the really broad HR hints were there. (Season 2 Ruth is a bit urrghhhh......) But the real fans of the show are so invested in them as a couple, and also as Harry being 'the still point of the turning world' as far as the show is concerned, that I doubt we'd get the chance to see Ruth on her own.

And honestly, I'm not interested in going back. Just forwards for these two. And Ruth, as we've often discussed, is in many ways a better match for Harry after her time away.

We all think she's the conscience of the Grid, a role that to some extent Jo assumed in her absence. But she has an eloquence and intelligence that is very appealing and always has been. As long as they continue to play along those lines for her, I'll be happy.

Of course, you know my feelings about HR....but that's another thread.

Beatriz · 05-03-2010, 04:16 PM

Don't tell us this things shazia.kasim!! Wink

I agree with both of you.

In the first place, Ruth is an amazing character on her own. I love her relationship with Harry, you all know, but I think she's too much centred on Harry at the moment. We need more Ruth with other people, but that doesn't mean I want Harry dead! GOD NO!! As somebody said somewhere in the forum: No Harry = No Spooks

Besides, I also think that if Harry were to die ( Angry

), Ruth wouldn't last in the Grid, there's no Harry and no Malcolm and no Jo... Her main supports there...

Honestly, I think this woman has suffered enough... It would be way too cruel!!

**Silktie** · 05-03-2010, 05:20 PM

Ruth is a fantastic character in her own right, but unfortunately for me she is indelibly linked to Harry. I wouldn't want to watch Spooks and Ruth without her interaction with Harry. That said, I most definitely do NOT want to see her interact with only Harry, and sincerely hope she gets to play off some of the other characters a bit more in season 9.

I'm strange in that I do not like to see characters that were once in a relationship I loved, move on even if one of the two dies. If Harry were to die (turns around three times and spits to prevent this from happening) I would prefer Ruth to pine for him forever... Tongue

**JHyde** · 05-03-2010, 05:33 PM

"I went outside, I turned, I spat, it froze." Pick that one, Silktie!

I know what you mean. It's why I am very keen to see how her relationships with Lucas and Tariq develop as well as with any new characters.

Ruth, perhaps more than anyone else on the show, is defined by her relationships with others on the Grid and with other people generally. This is not a flaw, but rather it's because she reaches out and wants to understand the people she interacts with on a daily basis. She is a generous person in the most pure sense, because she wants to give her time and energy in little, everyday ways. That's always the hardest, I find, whether it's in friendships or homes or offices. I really love that about her.

I think if Harry were to die after everything that has already happened, that might be a bridge too far for her. There are only so many times you can get up again.

Aria · 05-03-2010, 05:38 PM

I was only playing devil advocate about some of the supposed rumours regarding season 9!!! I agree with all of you in that Ruth is a much stronger character now than before and sometimes she is too linked with Harry. I enjoyed her scenes with Tariq in season 8 and hope her relationships with other characters develop. Harry has strong relationships with both Lucas and Ros and Ruth should have someone besides Harry play off.
That said if the worst was too happen and Harry left, I feel, Ruth would still carry on with MI5 as she may feel she is dishonouring her dead friends by leaving.

**JHyde** · 05-03-2010, 05:42 PM

It's OK S.K. - it stirred up a lively debate and there naught wrong with that!

**Silktie** · 05-03-2010, 05:54 PM

(05-03-2010 05:33 PM)JHyde Wrote: "I went outside, I turned, I spat, it froze." Pick that one, Silktie!

I know what you mean. It's why I am very keen to see how her relationships with Lucas and Tariq develop as well as with any new characters.

Ruth, perhaps more than anyone else on the show, is defined by her relationships with others on the Grid and with other people generally. This is not a flaw, but rather it's because she reaches out and wants to understand the people she interacts with on a daily basis. She is a generous person in the most pure sense, because she wants to give her time and energy in little, everyday ways. That's always the hardest, I find, whether it's in friendships or homes or offices. I really love that about her.

I think if Harry were to die after everything that has already happened, that might be a bridge too far for her. There are only so many times you can get up again.

That would be Sam from the West Wing. Where do you think I got that idea from? Cool

Yes, you said what I meant about Ruth being defined by her humanity more than any of the other characters. I do love that about her, but I think you may be right that losing Harry could be too much. Maybe that's why she was so desperately trying to dissuade him from going to the building with the ticking bomb in it in 8.8.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 05-03-2010 06:01 PM by JHyde.)

Indeed. And you gotta love a bit of Sam in there too Smile

I have been mulling over this anyway, because of what Nitrus said a few weeks back, about how Ruth is all about the Harry. It's not just him though. She's always been about what she brings out in others, whether it's Danny or Adam or Harry. To put it another way, it's her love for others that defines her, and that can't be bad. It's why we all want her to be with Harry so much. They could both do with a little bit of lovin'.

**Silktie** · 05-03-2010, 06:12 PM

I've been comparing her interactions with others vs her interactions with Harry during the rewatch after that earlier discussion. Also, thinking back on season 4, which I recently watched, she does have most of her interaction with Harry even then. But here's the thing: That is perhaps because they are both mostly confined to the Grid and thus naturally have more interaction with each other than with others. I also think that we tend to forget her interactions with others in season 8, because the thing that most people remember about Ruth in season 8 is episode 8.1, where she obviously interacted intensely with Harry. But she had good scenes with Jo, Malcolm, Tariq, and even with Ros and Lucas when she took them on about sending a 16 year old into danger.

**Silktie** · 05-04-2010, 05:05 PM

(03-04-2010 11:18 PM)picard1109 Wrote: Anyway, I hope that Kudos show some good sense and don't kill Harry off in season 9. I really think there's spin-off potential with Harry... maybe he retires and sets up his own private agency or something. While Kudos would need to avoid a repetition of The Equalizer, I think Harry out on his own...perhaps with Ruth (but as I think she's an annoying wimp, I'd rather not...),,,or burying the hatchet with Jenny Agutter's character and going into partnership... Anyway, Harry's far too good a character to kill off.

I found picard1109's comments about Ruth in the Harry thread interesting. Being an avid fanfiction reader, I've noticed that many writers see Ruth as a helpless wimp that is prone to hysterics and a lot of crying. Personally I don't see Ruth like that at all. I actually find her quite a strong character, and can't for the life of me imagine her being a helpless wimp in any situation. The times she has gone out in the field, she has acquitted herself well, using her brain rather than brawn impressively. The only time she seems to become less sure of herself was when she was in a one-on-one situation with Harry, and that was probably because she had a crush on him. However, since her return even that is no longer happening. I'm curious to know what makes people see her as weak?