[spoilers] Harry and Ruth Strike Back

[JHyde]

Personally, if they did go down this road, I might be inclined to agree with Nitrus about the whole cliche thang.

[Nitrus]

Yeh exactly, choosing between two people is really cliched AND it's been done before in Spooks.

A better scenario in my eyes would be Ruth being in a situation where Harry had to choose between the safety of the country or Ruth's life and choosing the country. Not because I don't want them to be together, but I think in that scenario Ruth would make the same choice.

[Silktie]

I agree Harry might actually choose the country over Ruth, but I'm not so sure Ruth would do the same. She did choose her family over the lives of thousands in 8.1...

Jeepers, let's hope we never have to find out!

[picard1109]

I've always had a problem with the Harry/Ruth sub-plot... Harry is a senior manager in the Security Service and would be well aware of rules against fraternising with his team. [For the same reason, I always had a problem with Adam and his wife both working in Section D...]

So, if H/R were to be plausible, one of them would have to leave Section D...and it wouldn't be Harry. He couldn't possibly leave himself open to charges of sexual harassment and potential blackmail, should they split up. Yes, I know it's a TV show and, given that we have to totally suspend disbelief for most of the rest of it, having Harry knocking off one of his team isn't the biggest leap of imagination...but it has never really rung true for me.

[JHyde]

You know, that whole thing about dating that they talk about in the early seasons? It's true. In an interview Stella Rimington did around the time her first fiction book was published, she was asked about this very issue and she said it was greatly encouraged. Not just in the 70s either - it was a big thing in the late 80s and early 90s when she was at the top of the Service.

I've been trying to find the damn article for months and still looking. But the point is that it's not a myth. At least according to a former DG.

Plus, as PF likes to say, it's not real life. It's entertainment.

I do agree that season 9 is a watershed season, much like season 4 for lots of reasons. But specifically for Harry and Ruth, there has to be a decision one way or the other. This is one of those times where it's not OK to be in the 90s. No more on and off again relationships of mixed signals!

[Aria]

Rules about fraternisation may be a possible reason why Harry waited so long to act on his feelings for Ruth, but rules don't stop you falling in love. Harry works and lives MI5 and meeting somebody on the outside and having a relationship with them (like with his wife) was unlikely to happen again, so for me his relationship with Ruth makes sense. They are two kindred spirits who find each other in the unlikeliest of places. picard1109 you make H/R sound a little sordid which imo it has never been.

[picard1109]

Not intending to make it sound sordid - it's just the opposite.

You're right about MI-5 encouraging in-service relationships, though - much safer to keep it 'in house', as it were. That's also shown in Spooks...can't remember the ep but Zoe goes to talk to new recruits and is expected to say how difficult it is to have relationships with 'outsiders'...then tells them how wonderful it can be, etc etc.

I'm just thinking about all the problems that, in real life, can go wrong with office-based relationships, particularly for the 'boss'. Still, it IS just entertainment and we have to suspend disbelief.

[Nia M]

I think that's either 3.3 or 3.4, but yes, they do mention that 5 prefers internal relationships.

Even so, I don't think Harry and Ruth's relationship (if they were ever to act on it) would mean one would have to leave - I doubt either of them would let their personal life get in the way of their jobs.

[Tea Lady]

How exciting. We like a good fight on the H/R thread. Picard1109 are you sure you are not Nitrus going under another username to trick us??

I dont see why Ruth or Harry would have to leave so long as their relationship didnt affect their work. As for Harry getting into trouble with his bosses, I would think that they totally respect Harry by now and probably would just be happy for him to have a relationship with someone. Harry's enemies will always find a way to get at Harry whether he has a girlfriend or not. It just presents another means.

Come on though, if you were the DG would you really punish Harry for having a relationship with a junior member of staff? For heavens sake he has been shot twice, tortured several times, saved London from countless bombs, saved the life of the HS and two prime ministers, and the country from nuclear attack. Are they really going to be bothered about a bit of Harry and Ruth action??

[Silktie]

Yes, I don't think there are any regulations prohibiting someone in Harry's position from dating one of his subordinates. The thing that distinguishes Harry and Ruth's situation from normal office romances for me, is that Harry has not dated or slept with anyone else that has worked under him. (No, Juliet doesn't count as she was actually his boss at the time of the affair, and that was a very long time ago.) So it is not as if Ruth would be the latest in a long line of office conquests. Also, Ruth is not doing it just to get ahead, i.e. trying to sleep her way towards a promotion. There is genuine feeling between them, which is what makes it so touching for many of us.

And I also think they are both strong characters, meaning that they would be adult enough to be able to continue working together even if a future relationship failed, as long as neither of them left the other for someone else working in the same section. But then it would really be a soap opera...