Episode 6 Discussion [rewatch]

[JHyde]

Exactly! I have the same thing with

Series season5 Spoiler: show

Ruth's scene on the docks with Zaf.

This is also the first time we meet the AG. The second of two actors we meet in season 3 who are brought back for specific storylines in later seasons. So look out for him those of you who are new!

I do find this a really sad storyline though. With the police officer and the recording of that death being played in court. You can understand why the wife was thirsty for what she saw as justice, and it's really down to the people who exploited her grief. It's not like she could just find out about Zoe being an officer, that was something someone had to bring to her.

And it's true that there has to be an accountability, I absolutely believe that. But I also think that there is a point where punishing an officer is counter productive and this was an appropriate write out for Zoe. It made sense for her character.

What do people think about the believability of this storyline?

[Aria]

I've always found this episode quite sad due to Zoe's departure, but it was very good as an exit for her character and I liked the fact she got a happy ending of sorts with Will. Zoe's scenes with Danny were excellent especially when he has to convince her to take the passport, really intense. Loved Zoe's rationalisation that she made a mistake and should now pay for it, it seemed very in character.
Also loved Harry's scenes with the AG, very confrontational. The higher the person is in the hierarchy, the less respect Harry shows to them!!

[Tea Lady]

I do like this episode although I am not a fan of flashback episodes. I think the storyline is believable and yes, if you screw up, you should face the consequences. But I find it hard to believe you would end up with a ten year prison sentence. At the end of the day there is a risk attached to being an undercover police officer, and the man who died was quite frankly a horrible thug.

I did think though that Zoe showed little emotion during the court case and it may have helped her if she had.

Harry was great in this episode. I love angry Harry although he must have been really hot during this episode because he never took his coat off.

The Danny and Zoe scenes were great throughout. Danny forgave all Zoe's ills, and supported her when the chips were down.

[JHyde]

(02-05-2010 04:41 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I did think though that Zoe showed little emotion during the court case and it may have helped her if she had.


The Danny and Zoe scenes were great throughout. Danny forgave all Zoe's ills, and supported her when the chips were down.

My guess about the first is that she probably did several takes of that speech she does about being sorry and who she looks at while she says it. The choice of take might have been savvy there, as it better fits with the outcome.

Good point about Danny. Especially given how wrecked he was to spill it on the boat the episode before, he knows when to come good.

[Silktie]

I think this episode works dramatically speaking, but if you look at it too closely there are many elements that are unbelievable. First off, the evidence against Zoe was circumstantial and flimsy, they really only had the bad guy's word against Zoe's. Even those tapes mean nothing, as once again all they confirm is his claims that Zoe put him up to it. If Zoe had a decent lawyer, she should never have been convicted on such flimsy evidence. Secondly I find it highly unlikely that the junior officer would end up in the dock over something like this. The reasons for the case going ahead was political, and because of this I believe they would have gone after someone more senior, i.e. the person that gave the actual order to kill Chellink. Also, how did the police find out that Zoe was from MI5? One would think with their resources they could have ensured the police never found out who Sophie really was.

Sad to think that if Zoe had just followed orders, this would not have happened, as in the end she herself decided to have the guy killed because she was afraid.

Second the other posters about the great scenes between Zoe and Danny.

I also loved the ending, with Danny saying "gone".

[CONDOR]

I think that you hit the nail on the head, Silktie, as television goes this was a good episode, but if, as this forum does so eloquently, we look for the reality behind this,it is one of the more unbelievable episodes for all of the reasons already stated. I understand that they needed to contrive an exit for Zoe / Keeley, and it was right that she was allowed to leave the series in an appropriate manner, as she had played such a prominent role, it was nice to have an excuse for an emotional good bye. I have to say I wouldn't want to be in the Hawes / McFadyen household when Keeley is in a strop, a force to be reckoned with if the way she laid into Will is anything to go by

And Like you I thought the closing scene was magic.

[lwhite53]

There's a very "Rashomon" quality to this ep -- Ozal's version, Zoe's version in court, and then the real story of what happened in the op. The whole ep asks how much truth is palatable, how much lying is acceptable and what happens in the grey area in-between, which is the area that spies inhabit. Once we discover that Zoe's testimony was "doctored," we knew that it would have to end badly.

Harry's "truth is a highly elastic concept" defines their lives. And Danny is aware of the problem, "Tell me what really happened . . . I'm the only person who can truly understand." But Zoe knows that she stepped over the line:
Dany: "We make difficult decisions, Zoe, and we're denied the luxury of moral absolutes."
Zoe: "You have to live with the consequences of your choices, Danny."
I find it interesting that in ep5 it was Zoe who angrily questioned the morality of killing the scientist but here she chooses to doom Celenk, without any real evidence of crimes committed but because she doesn't like what he represents.

Loved seeing Harry go to the mat for Zoe and the service -- he was damned if the politics of the situation were going to land Zoe in jail. "We know where the bodies are buried, remember" -- that line is almost taunting the AG, basically saying you don't want me as your enemy because I'll do a lot of damage and I don't really care who I take down. Do not mess with mad Harry!

Spoiler: show

(And a typical spooks trick of casually throwing in a new character, the AG, who will figure prominently in future eps.)

Also loved Malcolm and Colin with the roulette wheel -- boys with their toys! And the Danny/Zoe scenes were excellent -- David and Keeley really gave their all in their last ep together:
Danny: "Some lucky person in Chile who doesn't know it yet is going to meet Gina Hamilton."
Zoe: "I'll never see you again."
Both are heartbroken and we feel it acutely.

[A Cousin]

I tend to watch from an artsy-fartsy standpoint and find it very easy to suspend my disbelief. However, I did not find it hard to believe that the case got pushed to trial so quickly nor that it was Zoe tried because it was made clear from the start that an example was being made of MI5 and Officer X. In my own country, there have been enough of junior officers being thrown to the wolves for me to believe that they would go after Zoe and not, say, Harry. It is also big publicity and media. And aside from that, it is, after all entertainment. The writers are intentionally paralleling the Persephone myth, I think rather successfully.

So that said, my two cents are as follows.

I like the format and think that if it had been strung across more than one episode it wouldn't have been nearly as effective. The choice to format it in flashback - disjointed and unraveling the "truth" - parallels the op itself. Having contained in one episode made me feel like the episode was spiraling out of control just like the op did. I did not feel as if I was being beat over the head with it either.

KH and DO were nothing less than fantastic in this. I don't cry at TV, but I cried at this - and this is the 3rd time I have seen it.

There was a fantastic supporting cast in this: Penny Downing, Ian McNeice, James Laurenson, Haluk Bilginer, Hannah Storey, etc. So many dry scenes in the courtroom and it is so hard to sustain any level of anticipation in that setting. Penny Downing as the Prosecution QC was particularly good. I like the episode where there are a lot of extra supporting players. Seems more real. They also did a lot of "art shots" in the courtroom I think to keep it interesting.

And finally, from a character stand point, this is kind of the first time you see just how far Harry is willing to go for his team especially someone who is framed for political and publicity reasons. Some of it is a bit questionable but his paternal tendencies really come out such as his line, "Go and tidy your room, Danny." What a fatherly thing to say in such a situation! There may have been others before, but this episode is where I really started clueing into it. Funny, because apparently he was rotten father to his own kids!

Peace.

[HellsBells]

(02-05-2010 09:35 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  I find it interesting that in ep5 it was Zoe who angrily questioned the morality of killing the scientist but here she chooses to doom Celenk, without any real evidence of crimes committed but because she doesn't like what he represents.

I think this was the main point for me in this episode. I had forgotten that it was Zoe who had decided to have Celenk killed, it was not ordered from above. Also there was no evidence that Celenk was financially supporting terrorism.
So, I believe that Zoe got what she deserved and should have served her 10 year sentence because she was acting without orders, and it was premeditated.

I also loved the "Danny go tidy your room" line from Harry.

[RussIan]

(04-05-2010 10:33 AM)HellsBells Wrote:  I also loved the "Danny go tidy your room" line from Harry.

Re-watched this episode today, I think that's in my top five favourite one-liners from Harry