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lwhite53 · 07-04-2010, 02:40 AM

I finished the re-watch some weeks back and have a question for the West Wing fanatics -- did anyone ever figure out who actually told Toby about the military space shuttle? I know who I think did so, but am curious to know what everyone else thinks.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 07-04-2010 05:36 AM by JHyde.)

I always just assumed that Toby put two and two together. It really wasn't so difficult to do.

But he did have that discussion with CJ which maybe was a final confirmation, even if it all maybes.

I still find the poignancy of that scene as Bartlett signs Toby's pardon unbearably good. You can almost him them arguing in '16 People', in 'The Two Bartletts', in 'Hartsfield's Landing', and the episode about Social Security, the name of which I have forgotten in the moment.

As much as I love other characters, without Leo who made it possible and Toby who made it happen, President Bartlett was nothing.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 16-05-2010 04:10 PM by JHyde.)

So we've been quiet on this thread for a bit. I stopped halfway through my re-watch of this a few months back and thought I'd start again where I left off. The wonderful two parter that starts season 4.

"First guy to miss has to shave his beard."

And also, the magnificent Lily Tomlin taking it to Bartlett.

"Does that come with tights and a cape?"

And all sorts of wonderful writing towards the end, including one of my favourite quotes about writing, ever.

Josh Malina did a great interview recently where he talks about Sorkin leaving and his career generally. Great actor though he is, I'm really hoping he turns to writing more and more, because he is a really funny guy. (His tweets are consistently my favourites, including those of many more illustrious comedians.)

Here's the link to the interview.

**Silktie** · 16-05-2010, 04:29 PM

Are you talking about Sam's quote where he says something like: 'Good writers borrow from other writers, great writers steal from them outright'? I love that quote too. What I love about that two-parter is poor Donna stuck with the grumpy twins, and finally losing it and putting them in their place. Oh, and Josh asking the farmer on the back of the truck whether it was trees planted out there, and the guy says no, it's corn. Hee!

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 16-05-2010 05:11 PM by JHyde.)

Yeah, that's the one. It's the quote from The West Wing that I actually think about the most, in terms of one line that just can sit at the back of my head when I'm doing stuff. The other is Toby's great bit: "You know, a funny thing happened when the White House got demystified. People started to think that any bozo could do it." (I might have that one slightly wrong.)

'20 Hours in America' is also great because it has Amy Adams in it, a tiny bit part. 'Catch Me If You Can' should have started her career seriously, but it waited another 5 years until Junebug.

I love Donna telling them both to shut up and why. I love poor Sam running on no sleep after several days straight (I know that feeling all too well, just without the good reasons!). I love Charlie slamming that kid into the door and basically stepping in to help the guy out before his life went really bad. I love CJ getting some hope from Bartlett's speech at the end of the dinner (I still get chills at that bit, even if he did rip off Tom Hanks). And I love Bruno calling Sam a freak.

Proper, vintage Sorkin. Pity that some of the writing in the back end of season 4 was so appalling, the worst the show saw, I think. And Sorkin also wrote the episodes I like the least in the whole show.

Allison Janney has two new shows coming out this fall in the US. She's in William H Macy's new show (the only thing I am not looking forward to about Shameless is Emmy Rossum - the rest of it looks bloody fantastic) doing a recurring but seminal role and also Mr Sunshine. I know nothing about the latter apart from the fact that she is meant to also be doing a recurring role in that too.

I don't know whether any of you guys have ever seen any of Sports Night but it really is worth a look. If only to see where Felicity Huffmann and Peter Krause started out in TV. The first six episodes of Sports Night are really, really good stuff and the whole stuff was basically a forerunner to a single camera non sitcom comedy that also incorporated drama really well. Sorkin loves to re-use his own stuff though. Some of Jeremy's (Josh Malina's) and Dan's best lines get recycled for WW. I also notice Josh Charles finally seems to have another good part and it's about bloody time. He's also a great actor.

A side point - how awesome are William H Macy and Felicity Huffmann? I am not much for celebrity couples but those guys are so cool.

nothingisasitseems · 21-05-2010, 05:19 PM

(07-04-2010 02:40 AM)lwhite53 Wrote: I finished the re-watch some weeks back and have a question for the West Wing fanatics -- did anyone ever figure out who actually told Toby about the military space shuttle? I know who I think did so, but am curious to know what everyone else thinks.

I think it was left open.

At various times Toby emphatically denied it was Leo, CJ or David (his brother).

I have heard it suggested Toby was taking the heat for someone else but would anyone go as far as doing jail time if he wasn't responsible when he had two small children?

lwhite53 · 21-05-2010, 11:21 PM

That's what I thought . . . unless, of course, it was Andi who told him.

**JHyde** · 22-05-2010, 05:33 AM

Andi wouldn't have known something like that! She was on the foreign relations committee not defence, there's no way she was big and ugly enough to have known at all.

**Silktie** · 25-05-2010, 12:08 PM

We spoke already about the things Spooks and West Wing have in common, for instance the idea of some people having a sense of duty towards serving their country. Episode 3.9 reminded me of another thing they have in common: Asking the question where you should draw the line when dealing with enemies of the state. In the West Wing we also saw Leo and Bartlet divided over whether they were justified in having that Minister from Kumar (?) killed because he was planning terrorist acts in the US. That storyline had a lot of parallels to Spooks' 3.9.

**JHyde** · 26-05-2010, 08:54 AM

It really does. I love that Leo goes through a real crisis trying to work out what he should do, from when Fitzwallace first talks him then all the way through to when he's trying to convince the President in those final moments in the theatre.

Honestly, season 3 is so underrated. In WW, I mean.