[spoilers] Harry and Ruth Strike Back

[Naivety]

(05-10-2010 05:59 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

Series Ian Wylie NW interview and pre season Radio Times interview with PF Spoiler: show

It sounds like Ruth gets into a fight and quite a nasty one at that. She must get hurt if she is having wood smashed over her head. What if this violence is directly or indirectly carried out by Lucas after Ruth finds something out? If anyone will find something out then it is Ruth. PF talks about this series of Spooks being taken up by Harry's quest for revenge. Well, we have only seen this in 9.1 so far, in any real degree. What if Harry then goes after Lucas for what has happened to Ruth?

Series 9.4 and speculation about later episodes Spoiler: show

I like this theory a lot. Harry would be mad with anger if Lucas did anything to harm any of the team, let alone Ruth.

I'm more than a tad worried about the blood on his shirt at the end of the series being Ruth's. If Ruth was hurt in a not too serious way, it may bring them both to their senses. Maybe we might even progess to (dare I say it) a hug! But It will be a tragedy if they bring H and R together only to write Ruth out in any cliff hanger

[Tea Lady]

Sorry. Bit of lunchtime silliness. I wonder what Ruth would think if this photo landed on her doorstep in a brown envelope.

[Silktie]

Heh. So that's why Beth has to clean the loo in Ruth's flat...

I found this one amusing. Note the graffiti on the wall - methinks the Kudos props department is taking things a bit far.

[Tea Lady]

Ha ha, that's brill Silktie. I did notice the graffiti last night when I was watching it again on iplayer but its a bit tricky to pause and rewind on that device, so I couldn't really make out what it said.

[A Cousin]

Great stuff - just great stuff in 9.3 for H/R and from NW/PF. One of the best episodes yet for all of them.

I thought that the furthering of the theme of how the job affects them personally that seems to be contained in the HR scenes was very well handled in the context of the threat du jour. It would have been very easy for the HR moments to take over in a completely unrelated way, but they didn't. I could tell the Michael Canton Jones gave extra care to this particular theme as they figure it all out.

The first scene when he growls at her, "Doubting my decisions, Ruth?" was frightening! Her reaction was fantastic! Later, when she tells him that he may have committed and error in judgement, but not an error in decency, his reaction is equally as great. Both the lines: "Sometimes you have to give a man a chance to show you who they really are" for him and her "We have to have a strategy" both have a double meaning. Just as he seems surprised that she still thinks him a decent man, she seems just as surprised that he hasn't given up on her.

I think to a certain extent that she is learning to deal with the idea that he is "just" a man. I think she had idealized him somewhat. By the nature of their respective jobs, he has access to so much more of her personal and psychological life than she does his.

I thought this episode did an excellent job of moving their mutual but individual struggles with their humanity, decency and guilt along.

[Naivety]

Harry has changed in this series. He is far more reflective of his role in what they are doing. Is this a result of what Ruth said to him about the decisions he's made? The 'story so far' sequence this week concentrated on this aspect of the proposal rejection.

An example of how he has changed is when he has remorse for his lack of judgement in allowing Aibek to escape. In a previous episode in Series 4 (I think) Juliet yells at him for making the wrong call and Harry snaps back at her ''So WHAT!''. He also said to her that whatever happens, neither should ever resign.

I'm wondering if Harry is trying to show Ruth that he is trying to make the right decisions for honourable reasons. In the scene on the Embankment when he says 'You have to give a man a chance' etc, his face is sooo earnest and then Ruth gives him a look back that to me seemed as though a penny had dropped. Did she begin to realise how much he's hurting?

[A Cousin]

(06-10-2010 04:27 PM)Naivety Wrote:  Harry has changed in this series. He is far more reflective of his role in what they are doing. Is this a result of what Ruth said to him about the decisions he's made? The 'story so far' sequence this week concentrated on this aspect of the proposal rejection.

I'm wondering if Harry is trying to show Ruth that he is trying to make the right decisions for honourable reasons. In the scene on the Embankment when he says 'You have to give a man a chance' etc, his face is sooo earnest and then Ruth gives him a look back that to me seemed as though a penny had dropped. Did she begin to realise how much he's hurting?

I see this exchange in a broader sense. I think his self doubt and reflection stems from many sources dating back to when Ruth left the first time, including all the deaths of team members culminating in Ros' and his own imprisonment/interrogations and betrayals from what he thought were trusted colleagues. I don't think that he is trying to prove his humanity to Ruth to win her love, he is trying to prove it to himself so he can keep going on without cracking up.

I think that what he means by that last line is that he recognizes that she is in a very difficult guilt filled place, has closed off from actual human contact, that she trusts nothing and has to bury herself in work just to keep on keepin' on. No one can hurt you if you don't let them in. I think that he is telling her to give the human race chance - Dr Kirby, himself, whatever - and that sometimes you just have to take a chance. That is why she is stunned speechless: he's right.

[xxgaylexx]

im shocked that anyone would find them anything other than cuteeeee

[molecatcher]

(07-10-2010 03:32 AM)A Cousin Wrote:  I see this exchange in a broader sense. I think his self doubt and reflection stems from many sources dating back to when Ruth left the first time, including all the deaths of team members culminating in Ros' and his own imprisonment/interrogations and betrayals from what he thought were trusted colleagues. I don't think that he is trying to prove his humanity to Ruth to win her love, he is trying to prove it to himself so he can keep going on without cracking up.

I think that what he means by that last line is that he recognizes that she is in a very difficult guilt filled place, has closed off from actual human contact, that she trusts nothing and has to bury herself in work just to keep on keepin' on. No one can hurt you if you don't let them in. I think that he is telling her to give the human race chance - Dr Kirby, himself, whatever - and that sometimes you just have to take a chance. That is why she is stunned speechless: he's right.

I certainly agree with some of your analysis. Harry's been struggling from the start to deal with losing Ros (he sent her into that hotel) as well as having to kill someone he considered a friend and displays lots of despair and doubt about the amount of blood on his hands as more people die. Ruth's veiled comment about Harry's choices when turning down his proposal would have added to his pain but I also took that last scene between them in a literal sense. He's telling her not to be so cynical and hard and does his best to justify his actions to both of them but I think her reaction is a realisation that he doesn't care about the risk of losing everything in order to offer Dr Kirby some solace after the death of his daughter and her small frown as Harry walks away shows growing concern about his state of mind.

That's how I saw it. Could be entirely wrong of course!

[Naivety]

I think her look at the end of that scene is more inward looking, ie she is examining herself at this moment.

I thought it was interesting that in the story so far sequences at the start of 9.3 the focus was not on 'we've never been more together than we are right now', but on 'the things we've done' and at the beginning they only showed 'I can't, Harry'.

I just got the feeling this week he is trying to win her round with his actions without compromising his own character. Harry has always, all the way through all the series, had the most thorough moral core. Thus when his decision ended up getting George killed, he was thinking about the bigger picture. I think he's deserate for Ruth to forgive him for that. She must understand that he couldn't have done anything else.