Series 9 Episode 6 discussion

[Naivety]

Is it possible that Vaughn is not the bad guy we all think he is. Maybe he warned Malcolm to get out of there.

According to Harry's Diary, Malcolm has been working at Section D since before Harry became the boss, so if Vaughn was involved in this business from fifteen years ago, then Malcolm would also know about it. Maybe the Albany file originates from the same period. If Lucas was actually 'John' during this time, then he would not necessarily know how the real Lucas North fits in with it all. By going to Malcolm to ask for the file, he has immediately given Malcolm a clue that he is not acting honestly.

I wonder how John came to be Lucas - was it Harry who brought that about, or was it Vaughn, or was it both of them? Earlier in the series Vaughn asked Lucas if he had told Harry, so I would say they certainly know each other.

Am I making sense? because my head is starting to hurt!

[BravoNine]

(26-10-2010 02:32 PM)Naivety Wrote:  Is it possible that Vaughn is not the bad guy we all think he is. Maybe he warned Malcolm to get out of there.

According to Harry's Diary, Malcolm has been working at Section D since before Harry became the boss, so if Vaughn was involved in this business from fifteen years ago, then Malcolm would also know about it. Maybe the Albany file originates from the same period. If Lucas was actually 'John' during this time, then he would not necessarily know how the real Lucas North fits in with it all. By going to Malcolm to ask for the file, he has immediately given Malcolm a clue that he is not acting honestly.

I wonder how John came to be Lucas - was it Harry who brought that about, or was it Vaughn, or was it both of them? Earlier in the series Vaughn asked Lucas if he had told Harry, so I would say they certainly know each other.

Am I making sense? because my head is starting to hurt!

That begs the question of if Vaughn is not the bad guy, then why the hell is he forcing Lucas down this path of being a traitor? What would be the purpose of ruining the mental stability of a good agent who was functioning perfectly fine before he showed up? It just doesn't make sense if this is suppose to test Lucas's integrity, I mean, seriously, isn't this taking a "test" a bit too far? If Vaughn is working with Malcolm, then why even send Lucas there in the first place? That's just a whole slew of other hard-to-believe scenarios popping up.

Oh now my head is hurting! This is getting too complicated! I'm just gonna stick to Vaughn being evil!

[Silktie]

(26-10-2010 12:25 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 12:04 PM)Silktie Wrote:  Yeah, I understood the painting provided the location of the file only, which turned out to be Malcolm's address. Maybe, Harry knew someone will eventually come looking for the Albany file, so he set up the dummy file in the archives with the painting in it, which gives Malcolm's address. Then as soon as someone wants the real file, they will have to approach Malcolm. But Malcolm knows never to give the real file to anyone (or perhaps doesn't even have it), so all this does is provide Harry with a heads-up that someone is looking for the file.

I see. Yes, I guess Malcolm may not have known he didn't have the real file but then again, why did he leave his house straight away then? Would Harry have put Malcolm at risk for a fake file?

I just would have thought, if Harry had gone to the trouble of setting up a dummy Albany file at 5, or at least have that painting with a message hidden in it, he would have known if someone had tried to access the file at 5. What I am saying is, as soon as someone looked at the Albany file, something would have flagged up surely?

Er, that's a good point, TL, hadn't thought of that... Although, Harry wouldn't know it was Lucas that accessed the file since he used someone else's codes to do it. Maybe the thing with Malcolm is a contingency to make sure they identify the real culprit.

I do think Malcolm knew it wasn't the real file, otherwise why would he have cleared out so fast? I meant that Harry and Malcolm together possibly concocted this plan. But I'm just speculating, I have no clue what is going on.

[A Cousin]

(26-10-2010 04:14 PM)Silktie Wrote:  I do think Malcolm knew it wasn't the real file, otherwise why would he have cleared out so fast? I meant that Harry and Malcolm together possibly concocted this plan. But I'm just speculating, I have no clue what is going on.

I agree. Judging by Malcolm's reaction to Lucas' mention of the Albany file and his immediate concern for Harry, I think he knows very well what it is. And it is something really horrible. I am not so sure that Malcolm didn't use the name "John" on purpose to get an idea of how much Lucas knows. That whole scene was just one big Malcolm misdirection.

Deleted: Extensive speculation paragraph that went around and around in circles because I have no clue where S9 is going to end up.

[Beatriz]

WOW!!WHAT A TERRIFIC EPISODE!! One of the best this series, I think most of us agree on that, lots of twists and turns, it will give me a heart attack one of these days! The last scene was amazing! Lucas in Malcolm's empty house with that orange light... great!

Loved the main storyline mixing with Lucas' one. I liked Danielle's character, she was smart and didn't took her much to read Lucas state of mind.

The whole team was excelent, from Tariq to Dimitri, I really like these two guys!

How wonderful and awesome was to see Malcolm back, I was so excited when I saw him in his purple jumper! I missed him so much!!! And her mother appearing was so funny!

I think Malcolm called Lucas "John" because that was one of Lucas' legends in the past in a big operation, maybe Maya was involved and Lucas met her through that... speculation... sorry.

Is it me or Vaughan has no longer got a paralisis in part of his mouth?

About Lucas... well, I think he has lost it, he couldn't bear the pressure and has started making very very wrong decisions who will regret and probably he is regretting now... I'm with those who think that he let Danielle die, he definitely had already hung up when he spoke, and that was because she mention "Albany". He crossed the line at that very moment for me... He's getting desperate... I'm not sure why is he doing this, I can't still believe it's for Maya... Why hasn't he looked for her before if he was so in love...? He did look for Elisaveta...

[HareBrained]

Thank goodness the series is finally starting to pick up the pace - was getting quite concerned until last night - back to the 'shrieking and hiding behind the cushion fabulousness' I expect

[vernon kell]

great episode last night ,has lucas been compromised or is he a double agent ,who does vaughan work for now ,great work last night from tariq and dimitri ,it just gets better and better

[molecatcher]

That was one of the best Spooks episodes I think I've ever seen. Two scenarios from my wish list for this series were used by Kudos (thanks so much!) in that we had a 1) Grid lockdown and 2) a great team working together to get themselves out of trouble. I bet you Harry fans would just love one of those voice simulators with him saying "step into my arms" or "time for bed my darling" over and over!!

I thought when Lucas told Malcolm Harry was being set up over the Cologne incident in 1979 he made the mistake of mentioning the Albany file as if the two were connected which Malcolm knew they weren't and he therefore sussed out that Lucas was lying to him. I also think Malcolm called him John deliberately to see what his reaction would be. Malcolm must know what's in the Albany file in order to have a decoy buried in his garden and probably also knows, along with Harry, about Lucas' past and they accept it because in order to be a Spook you have to have a dark side otherwise you wouldn't be able to operate. Although at first shocked that he appeared to let Danielle die rather than have her tell anyone about the detour to Malcolm's and the Albany file I did think she died within a few seconds of him removing his finger from the arterial bleed so didn't actually kill her and seemed genuinely saddened rather than evil at that point.

It's a situation Lucas has become more and more embroiled in and like a spider's web the more he twists and turns the more entangled he becomes. With Malcolm moved out of harms way he has to think of a plan B which is hopefully to confide in Harry.

The script writers are doing a brilliant job to have us all confused and coming up with different plot directions. As much as I can't wait to see how it all comes together I shall so miss my Monday night adrenalin rush.

[A Cousin]

(26-10-2010 05:45 PM)Beatriz Wrote:  About Lucas... well, I think he has lost it, he couldn't bare the pressure and has started making very very wrong decisions who will regret and probably he is regretting now... I'm with those who think that he let Danielle die, he definitely had already hung up when he spoke, and that was because she mention "Albany". He crossed the line at that very moment for me... He's getting desperate...

I agree. It looked to me like the bullet got her in the carotid artery which one can survive if the flow of blood is stemmed and medical attention is immediate - granted, within minutes. Lucas didn't just hasten Danielle's death, he let her die. By releasing the pressure on her wound, he made the decision (oh, THAT word!) to do what he was not able to do minutes earlier by what he thought was Harry's order - kill her.

Great acting by RA. Not only that, I thought that this was the best writing for Lucas thus far showing the two sides of Lucas at war with each other. I finally understood his duality. There were moments throughout the episode that I felt sorry for him and could feel him fighting the bad choices. The last scene in Malcolm's empty house could have been completely OTT, but it worked for me. Lucas has lost himself to his decisions. He has lost the music as it were. As Roz said first thing in S9, "Don't make a choice that you can't live with."

I go back to Vaughan's words to him at the beginning, Stop torturing yourself, John! He might as well tell him to stop breathing.

[agent68]

(26-10-2010 05:45 PM)Beatriz Wrote:  Is it me or Vaughan has no longer got a paralisis in part of his mouth?

Vaughan was just putting on the act of having suffered a stroke - when he met Lucas/John by the Thames he said he had done it for the sympathy vote as Lucas/John's dad had suffered several strokes. When that didn't work he bought Maya into it.

---

I assumed that the car Lucas was driving around with Danielle in the boot was bullet proof/armoured as there seemed to be an awful lot of ineffective gun shot hits. If that's the case how did she get shot in the neck?