Series 9 Episode 6 discussion

[JHyde]

I totally thought that the 'chief hacker' was Boscod from 6.10/early season 7 (in flashbacks). I don't think it was him ultimately, but it had me going for a bit.

[Silktie]

(27-10-2010 06:31 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 10:11 PM)NightOwl Wrote:  By way of a partial explanation for Lucas's actions, though, he doesn't know that she spied on him and must have overheard about Albany. He must assume that if she knows about it then she must be working with Vaughn or whoever Vaughn is working for. He does know that he can't reach Harry, but he doesn't know why or who is pretending to be Harry. Not saying it's his finest moment, but given the circumstances, I think it's possible he believed she was an enemy agent, and he wasn't motivated entirely by self-interest.

I can't believe that I never thought of this myself, and I agree!!!

He doesn't know that she spied on him about Albany. When she spoke about not telling anyone about the Albany file, he could have just assumed that she is related to the whole Vaughn thing. And coupled with the situation happening on the Grid that he knew the Grid was compromised, he could have assumed that she was working with Vaughn or whoever is targeting the Grid. That makes a lot of sense, and it's very plausible considering Lucas's surprise at her mentioning Albany. So he could have let her die knowing he can't save her anyways, and the possibility that she may be an enemy, so in this way he can protect the Grid, Maya, and himself.

Nope, sorry, I have to disagree, lol. He did know she spied on him and Malcolm because she told him so. She confronted him about what he was doing with Malcolm and what was in the mystery package.

[BravoNine]

(27-10-2010 08:17 AM)Silktie Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 06:31 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 10:11 PM)NightOwl Wrote:  By way of a partial explanation for Lucas's actions, though, he doesn't know that she spied on him and must have overheard about Albany. He must assume that if she knows about it then she must be working with Vaughn or whoever Vaughn is working for. He does know that he can't reach Harry, but he doesn't know why or who is pretending to be Harry. Not saying it's his finest moment, but given the circumstances, I think it's possible he believed she was an enemy agent, and he wasn't motivated entirely by self-interest.

I can't believe that I never thought of this myself, and I agree!!!

He doesn't know that she spied on him about Albany. When she spoke about not telling anyone about the Albany file, he could have just assumed that she is related to the whole Vaughn thing. And coupled with the situation happening on the Grid that he knew the Grid was compromised, he could have assumed that she was working with Vaughn or whoever is targeting the Grid. That makes a lot of sense, and it's very plausible considering Lucas's surprise at her mentioning Albany. So he could have let her die knowing he can't save her anyways, and the possibility that she may be an enemy, so in this way he can protect the Grid, Maya, and himself.

Nope, sorry, I have to disagree, lol. He did know she spied on him and Malcolm because she told him so. She confronted him about what he was doing with Malcolm and what was in the mystery package.

All she said was that she didn't trust him and she threatened to tell her people about Lucas losing the security detail and going to that house, that he was lying to her. She didn't mention the package or Albany until at the very end when he was surprised to hear her say those words.

If he had wanted her dead just because she confronted him about meeting with Malcolm and having the mysterious package and was afraid that she was going to tell and wanting to save his own butt, then he wouldn't have bothered to try and save her when the shoot-out started, I mean, he could have just killed her because of the fake-Harry's kill order and no one would know what he did wrong.

He had been full-on saving her right up until "Albany" was mentioned as she laid there dying and that's when he had a look of shock and surprise. If he had known she was spying on him, why didn't he get rid of her earlier? He had a kill-order, he could have easily used that to cover up killing her and no one would have blamed him either.

So it is my belief that Lucas didn't think she knew anything even when she was confronting him about the meeting with Malcolm. He didn't see her as a threat, in fact he tried to save her. It wasn't until she mentioned Albany did he stopped trying to save her. So in his mind, he could have easily thought she was working with Vaughn or that something had happened on the Grid and that she was involved in it.

And as for getting her shot, even that isn't entirely Lucas's fault. Fake-Harry did initiate a kill-order and if Lucas was to carry it out, he would have to loose the American security detail anyways, so either way he would have ended up in that meeting place by himself with the girl so that he can kill her without the Americans finding out or stopping it.

A mix of circumstances (some Lucas's doing, some not) led to that shoot-out and that girl getting shot. He will definitely have to shoulder a lot of the blame for the girl's death, after all he did stop trying to save her and let her die (even though she would have been dead anyways) but not all of it was his fault.

This is quite a hole that Lucas is digging himself into, but as now that I finally know what secret Lucas is so afraid to come out, I can see why he didn't just confess to Harry or why he fears to tell Maya the truth. That is quite a terrible secret Lucas is carrying, and certainly a secret that would destroy Lucas's life if it came out. No wonder he's gone all levels of crazy to prevent the past from coming back. Although if Ros can be welcomed back with open arms after her betrayal, surely there can be a way for Lucas to redeem himself too!

I'm beginning to wonder if this whole John/Lucas thing is gonna end up being multiple-personality disorder or something! Maybe the surprise ending is that Lucas is sent away to a clinic to help him? I don't think we've ever have one like that before.

[GrendelKhan]

I think Lucas is doing all of this to smoke somebody out. Just can't believe he's doing it all for a woman.
If not that he's done.

[BravoNine]

(27-10-2010 10:28 AM)GrendelKhan Wrote:  I think Lucas is doing all of this to smoke somebody out. Just can't believe he's doing it all for a woman.
If not that he's done.

Well it is more than just for a woman, it is more about the terrible secret that he doesn't want to come out more than Maya. Maya and this secret is the leverage Vaughn is using against Lucas.

[nothingisasitseems]

(26-10-2010 08:00 PM)Gazelle Wrote:  Well, now just 2 episodes left and I'm starting to get worried... Surely the scriptwriters wouldn't have Ruth on the wrong side of all this - no, I remain hopeful that she's innocent and has just got suspicious about Lucas for good reason (afterall, she did spot him leaving the secure server area a few episodes back). There's surely no way she'd betray MI5 or Harry? Looks like she gets caught up in the action next week but am I the only one hoping Harry orchestrates the mission to free her and that they make up by the end of episode 7? (not used to the frosty relations between them, and not liking it either!)

I think Ruth's embroiled in this up to her neck but whether she's "good" or "bad" is uncertain.

She may very well be setting Lucas up.

How would Vaughn know that Malcolm had the Albany file? (if he even does have it!!)

[Tea Lady]

(27-10-2010 08:04 AM)JHyde Wrote:  (Nice to have the core Harry mythology coming back in regards to Cologne too, Harry's Diary for those not aware.)

Just going back to this point, which I don't think will get explored any further in the show, how did Lucas and Malcolm know about Cologne and Operation Omega? Wasn't this a highly classified operation, a black op? The only person who knew was the DG (and others at a similar level) and Juliet, who found out over pillow talk. I am perhaps just being picky here and it just suited the story to have it mentioned.

[pook]

Oh. My. God!

Just watched it. Loved loved loved it. Loved the plot, loved the writing, loved the characters, loved the camera work etc etc..... Haven't read this thread and will post properly when I've had a think about the episode (and watched it again). However, may have to sue Kudos for weight gain - managed to subconsciously eat 3 pieces of cake while watching and only just realised!

[lottanyman]

(27-10-2010 01:40 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Just going back to this point, which I don't think will get explored any further in the show, how did Lucas and Malcolm know about Cologne and Operation Omega? Wasn't this a highly classified operation, a black op? The only person who knew was the DG (and others at a similar level) and Juliet, who found out over pillow talk. I am perhaps just being picky here and it just suited the story to have it mentioned.

Did Lucas or Malcolm say anything about operation Omega?
I have to watch it again but I thought Lucas only mentioned Cologne and assumed he just threw that in in order to make the necessity of him wanting the file more plausible to Malcolm but having no real background information on any special operation.

I think all in Section D or at least Lucas (and Malcolm) know that Harry was stationed in Germany in his past and maybe that and some involvement of the Stasi etc was the first thing that came up in Lucas' mind to make Malcolm to buy into his story.

[Tea Lady]

(27-10-2010 02:24 PM)lottanyman Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 01:40 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Just going back to this point, which I don't think will get explored any further in the show, how did Lucas and Malcolm know about Cologne and Operation Omega? Wasn't this a highly classified operation, a black op? The only person who knew was the DG (and others at a similar level) and Juliet, who found out over pillow talk. I am perhaps just being picky here and it just suited the story to have it mentioned.

Did Lucas or Malcolm say anything about operation Omega?
I have to watch it again but I thought Lucas only mentioned Cologne and assumed he just threw that in in order to make the necessity of him wanting the file more plausible to Malcolm but having no real background information on any special operation.

I think all in Section D or at least Lucas (and Malcolm) know that Harry was stationed in Germany in his past and maybe that and some involvement of the Stasi etc was the first thing that came up in Lucas' mind to make Malcolm to buy into his story.

I'm just going by memory here, so I admit I could be wrong, but Harry was working for MI6 at the time and was stationed in Cologne. His job (operation Omega) was to conduct operations to make the Germans take action against the Red Army Fraction Group. This was a black op. So, yes, I guess it could be known by others that Harry was in Cologne at the time, but I would have thought, not know what he was doing there.

I could be wrong here though. I know others are more expert in Harry's Diary.