Series 9 Episode 6 discussion

[hlob]

Malcolm return..... absolutely brilliant....
Did anyone have seen Lucas's phones???? One to received sms from Vaughn about albany file, iphone thrown away a then blackberry.... And Vaughn had a numbers for all of them.... Spooks is the best series ever, but I think director can make sure is believable....

[femaleBertieWooster]

(27-10-2010 08:17 AM)Silktie Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 06:31 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 10:11 PM)NightOwl Wrote:  By way of a partial explanation for Lucas's actions, though, he doesn't know that she spied on him and must have overheard about Albany. He must assume that if she knows about it then she must be working with Vaughn or whoever Vaughn is working for. He does know that he can't reach Harry, but he doesn't know why or who is pretending to be Harry. Not saying it's his finest moment, but given the circumstances, I think it's possible he believed she was an enemy agent, and he wasn't motivated entirely by self-interest.

I can't believe that I never thought of this myself, and I agree!!!

He doesn't know that she spied on him about Albany. When she spoke about not telling anyone about the Albany file, he could have just assumed that she is related to the whole Vaughn thing. And coupled with the situation happening on the Grid that he knew the Grid was compromised, he could have assumed that she was working with Vaughn or whoever is targeting the Grid. That makes a lot of sense, and it's very plausible considering Lucas's surprise at her mentioning Albany. So he could have let her die knowing he can't save her anyways, and the possibility that she may be an enemy, so in this way he can protect the Grid, Maya, and himself.

Nope, sorry, I have to disagree, lol. He did know she spied on him and Malcolm because she told him so. She confronted him about what he was doing with Malcolm and what was in the mystery package.

I agree, he did NOT let her die. Lucas is obviously a very smart spy, guessed grid was compromised, able to put two and two together quickly.

If he wondered whether she was in with Vaughn (and going to live more than 30 more seconds) he could have got some information out of her. He would have reasoned that her not trusting him and running away in the woods was uncharacteristic of those who've been playing him with Albany. Remember Vaughn flashing his pearly whites at the point of a gun, knowing that Lucas was not going to do anything.

He would also be smart enough to know how close a person is to dying. She had been gushing from her jugular for over 10 minutes, her face was extremely pale. He took his hand away after feeling how much blood she was losing, knowing there was no chance. He comforted her by saying he could hear the ambulance coming. Anyone as confused and angry as Lucas about Albany would have kept her alive if possible for at least another minute to question her. He gave Malcolm a crock, he could have thought up something like "Vaughn's a nice guy, isn't he," anything to see her reaction. She was scared and compliant and any spy worth his scowl would know that she would spill.

How about, "tell me about Albany or I'll take my hand off your neck. You've got 1 minute."

Edit to add: The beep during the emergency call was to show that the call was being recorded. It is possible that the absence of another beep meant that he hung up but it can still be argued that it was not entirely for himself. She had crucial codes, was going to have access to all British and American files, and knew about Albany. Recipe for disaster.

[neuro]

(26-10-2010 08:25 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 07:29 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 07:26 PM)Caitlinhg Wrote:  1. Why "Albany" as the code word for the Op file Lucas is chasing? Is there any significance, like there was with "Sugarhorse" and others? I haven't seen any thoughts about this, here, and would be interested to see if anyone else has wondered about the name? Usually there is some link from the cover name to the operation. Any idea?

I provided some thought about this here: http://www.spooksforum.co.uk/thread-1248...l#pid33309

See what you think.

Do you have any ideas about what may have happened in North Africa in 1995? I've been googling my fingers sore to get some history from that time.

Spoiler: show

I've found several references to water problems being solved. Also, the Middle East was involved. Just read on a blog that episode one involved Lucas getting on that ship from North Africa, which I did not pick up on. Did England have some role in changing government in Africa, together with the CIA of course?

Edit to add:

(26-10-2010 08:23 PM)neuro Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 07:09 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 05:52 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 05:47 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Just thinking about what Lucas said to Malcolm to get the Albany file from him, something about someone trying to set Harry up with photos from (I think) somewhere in China, with the year being 1995, 15 years ago. That must mean that Harry was also present for whatever went down with Vaughn, John and Maya.

I thought Lucas said 1978, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if it was about what happened in Africa with John/Lucas thing....I'm just confused now....

I tried to post this last night (USA last night=approx 8AM in England) and kept getting forbidden messages. Did we get hacked?

-------------------------
I just checked, Lucas said Colon? 1979, investigating the Red Army (made me think China, I'm a dummy) and East Germany.

probably the Red Army Faction aka the Baader-Meinhof Group as they where active in the 70's

Thank you. Any idea what was happening in Africa in 1995 that England would want to keep secret? I'm referring to meddling of course.

Maybe some coup reference as Bob Denard (a Mercenary mentioned in dogs of war) tried to run a coup in Comoros in 1995.

Denard is the one in dogs of war who is stated to be friends with DGSE

---

(26-10-2010 10:11 PM)NightOwl Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 09:21 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Hot damn -- this will certainly get added to my 10 favorite eps list!! Wonderful tension throughout, great "spy stuff" happening (R passing H the note, Tariq throwing the computer, Malcolm giving Lucas the wrong file -- with a smile and handshake, voice synthesis, Malcolm calling Lucas "John," etc, etc), and terrific music underscoring.

As people have already said, loved the lockdown scenario and the whole group (sans Lucas) having to work together to get out and foil the newest threat. My fav line of the ep: Dimitri's "I've just had a really terrible idea." I laughed out loud at the look on his face.

Lucas is getting more and more out of control. The morphing between the "Lucas" and "John" personnas is happening almost without his being aware of it (maybe he has multiple personality disorder) and Maya seems to be what triggers the reaction. I think the most telling episode is what ultimately happens to Danielle -- he resists the fake Harry's order to kill her and does his best to protect her until he discovers that she knows about the Albany file, and then he allows her to die. I do believe he cancelled the emergency call and relaxed the pressure on her wound so that she would bleed out -- the reason he did so was to protect himself and, ultimately, Maya. Whether or not she would have died anyway is immaterial -- he (John) compromised another person for the second time. Lucas is the one who's feeling the remorse.

I'm finding the testiness between Harry and Ruth over Lucas interesting - Harry obviously wants to trust Lucas and he appears to know more than he's letting on but he doesn't want to let Ruth into the knowledge loop. Don't know yet whether that's to protect Ruth, to protect Lucas, or if he suspects Ruth of something. The way the coming clips are set up, it appears that Harry is giving Lucas the spiel about loyalty and betrayal but . . . we don't necessarily know that that's the case.

And LOVED seeing Malcolm again!!

By way of a partial explanation for Lucas's actions, though, he doesn't know that she spied on him and must have overheard about Albany. He must assume that if she knows about it then she must be working with Vaughn or whoever Vaughn is working for. He does know that he can't reach Harry, but he doesn't know why or who is pretending to be Harry. Not saying it's his finest moment, but given the circumstances, I think it's possible he believed she was an enemy agent, and he wasn't motivated entirely by self-interest.

Are we supposed to believe that the Russians and Chinese were able to compromise MI-5 entirely on their own or did they have help from a mole?

maybe some one hacked the home office app on the home secraterys phone and used that to piggy back into the grid :-)

[A Cousin]

(27-10-2010 07:13 PM)neuro Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 08:25 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Are we supposed to believe that the Russians and Chinese were able to compromise MI-5 entirely on their own or did they have help from a mole?

maybe some one hacked the home office app on the home secraterys phone and used that to piggy back into the grid :-)

LOL! Damn that Towers! I knew he was in on it! No wonder he had that half-assed excuse to get "Beech" off the grid.

[femaleBertieWooster]

(27-10-2010 07:22 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 07:13 PM)neuro Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 08:25 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Are we supposed to believe that the Russians and Chinese were able to compromise MI-5 entirely on their own or did they have help from a mole?

maybe some one hacked the home office app on the home secraterys phone and used that to piggy back into the grid :-)

LOL! Damn that Towers! I knew he was in on it! No wonder he had that half-assed excuse to get "Beech" off the grid.

That first comment is not mine. I know zip about hacking and pretty much buy whatever the writers are selling.

Not Towers, notice the glare he gave Harry when leaving. Harry ordered them out, Towers gave Beech the best diplomatic excuse he could think of. Check again, it was an awesome glare. Towers was not pleased to put it mildly.

[vernon kell]

things are really hotting up now ,i think harry will use lucas to lure vaughan out and his handlers ,were you will find CIA involvement and the chinese will takeout lucas ?

[pook]

(27-10-2010 05:47 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  How about, "tell me about Albany or I'll take my hand off your neck. You've got 1 minute."

Somehow I assumed that she knew about Albany by looking through Malcolm's window and overhearing him and Lucas talking. Have I misunderstood and is she somehow involved in Albany? I thought she was just testing Lucas when she mentioned Albany, for some reason letting him know that she was aware of what he'd been up to ...

Does anyone have any theories as to why Danielle mentioned Albany? Seems a strange thing to bring up in your dying breaths.

Loved the last scene with Lucas/John clutching his neck - almost as if the situation was suffocating him. Brings back the scene in the Russian prison when he tried to hang himself, also episode 5 when he was strangled with the belt. Can see a theme here - not sure if it will continue.... will Lucas eventually die from stangulation?

[BravoNine]

(28-10-2010 01:00 AM)pook Wrote:  Somehow I assumed that she knew about Albany by looking through Malcolm's window and overhearing him and Lucas talking. Have I misunderstood and is she somehow involved in Albany? I thought she was just testing Lucas when she mentioned Albany, for some reason letting him know that she was aware of what he'd been up to ...

No, Danielle was not involved in Albany, she's just a cryptographer. All she did was overhearing Malcolm and Lucas talk about Albany. She doesn't know anything, but she was freaked out because she knew Lucas was lying to her about her security detail being followed. So she was scared because first he lost her security and then she took her to this house where he's having meetings. She didn't trust him.

She wasn't testing Lucas when she mentioned Albany. She was dying and she didn't want to die, she was afraid that Lucas was gonna let her die because she knew he went to the house Malcolm was at. She thought that he wasn't gonna save her so she promised that she wouldn't tell anyone about the house and about Albany, just please don't let her die. She had no idea the significance of Albany other that apparently Lucas didn't want people to know and that she feared that he was gonna kill her or something.

(28-10-2010 01:00 AM)pook Wrote:  Loved the last scene with Lucas/John clutching his neck - almost as if the situation was suffocating him. Brings back the scene in the Russian prison when he tried to hang himself, also episode 5 when he was strangled with the belt. Can see a theme here - not sure if it will continue.... will Lucas eventually die from stangulation?

Maybe it's a theme that Lucas is feeling suffocated by the choices he is making that it's driving him crazy. It's an internal tug of war he is having, a fight between John and Lucas and right now both sides are losing this war because Lucas/John is losing control.

Hopefully Lucas won't die of strangulation, RA had mentioned that Lucas were to die, he wanted a peaceful death, strangled to death wouldn't be very peaceful!

Who knows, these writers can bring out anything! For all I know, Lucas can be run over by a truck....

[GrendelKhan]

(27-10-2010 10:30 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 10:28 AM)GrendelKhan Wrote:  I think Lucas is doing all of this to smoke somebody out. Just can't believe he's doing it all for a woman.
If not that he's done.

Well it is more than just for a woman, it is more about the terrible secret that he doesn't want to come out more than Maya. Maya and this secret is the leverage Vaughn is using against Lucas.

Don't you think that Harry already knows this secret.
I mean they go back to when you're in diapers before you can join any security service.
So what if Maya finds out? If she loves him, she'll forgive him.

[femaleBertieWooster]

(28-10-2010 01:00 AM)pook Wrote:  

(27-10-2010 05:47 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  How about, "tell me about Albany or I'll take my hand off your neck. You've got 1 minute."

Somehow I assumed that she knew about Albany by looking through Malcolm's window and overhearing him and Lucas talking. Have I misunderstood and is she somehow involved in Albany? I thought she was just testing Lucas when she mentioned Albany, for some reason letting him know that she was aware of what he'd been up to ...

Does anyone have any theories as to why Danielle mentioned Albany? Seems a strange thing to bring up in your dying breaths.

Loved the last scene with Lucas/John clutching his neck - almost as if the situation was suffocating him. Brings back the scene in the Russian prison when he tried to hang himself, also episode 5 when he was strangled with the belt. Can see a theme here - not sure if it will continue.... will Lucas eventually die from stangulation?

I didn't mean that she knew, only that Lucas would use whatever time she had left to find out if/what she knew. Remember that Vaughn said if he wanted answers, do what he said. He would have tried to get answers from Danielle. He didn't even ask because she was just about dead.

I think she mentioned Albany because she liked him and wanted to assure him that she wouldn't give away whatever he was hiding.

Getting her out of the trunk and trying to protect her would have already told her that he wasn't going to kill her or let her die.

edit for typo