Series 9 Episode 7 discussion

[BravoNine]

I'm still confused as to why the sudden change! He was living as Lucas North for years and years, survived through all that, showed loyalty and affection, and suddenly Vaughn turns up out of the blue with that stupid briefcase and he flips and becomes John?

If he is such an evil person, why has he been doing all the loyal things as Lucas? Was he waiting for Vaughn to show up and release him? If Vaughn didn't show up, was he gonna one day turn? Or was he gonna live as Lucas for the rest of his life? And what the heck is Albany? And where do the Chinese get involve in all this mess?

Still so many questions that needs to be answered and explanations that needs to be given.

I will keep on believing in my "Lucas" until the very end.

And I'm still thinking he's got split personality issues....

How did they go from bringing in such a tortured ambiguous character with both a dark and light side and then turned him into a straight-up-one-sided-cold-blooded killer? I know that RA loves playing the baddies, but isn't this a bit extreme!?!?! I mean, even Sir Guy of Gisbourne had his redemption in the end even though he was a baddie!

*puts Lucas cookie jar in secret hiding place* He's staying in there until I know what's wrong with him!!

*And glares at stupid briefcase and kicks it* Stupid briefcase! It's all your fault!! If you didn't appear Lucas wouldn't have gone all three-french-fries-short-of-a-happy-meal!

[picard1109]

(01-11-2010 10:36 PM)Who Needs Bond Wrote:  I just posted this in the Ruth character thread, but it fits here too...

Series 9 Spoiler: show

I thought that Ruth's storyline tonight had the feel of a swansong...so I fear for the outcome of next week's episode where Ruth is concerned....

Oh, if only...

This ep was real edge-of-your-seat stuff. I was glad to see more of Harry in this ep - we've not seen nearly enough of him. I thought Ruth did seem unbalanced but it seemed to be the culmination of pent up rage, so understand it completely. Then to say that she's fine right afterward...yep, I understand that, too. She's still a bit of a wimp when getting slapped around, though!

And I suspect the writers will have us howling at the TV next week as they leave us with an infuriating cliffhanger. Gits.

[molecatcher]

(01-11-2010 11:25 PM)binkie Wrote:  Hello! I am de-lurking to post this, and I'm almost certainly wrong (or clutching desperately at straws!): is it possible that Lucas in in fact the Albany file? I admit I have no well-thought-out theory to back this up. But it could be made to fit with the Chinese cell in 9.4 having the still-unexplained picture of him.

I think it's interesting that so much of John's backstory was told / suggested to him by Vaughan, even down to the chilling (and brilliant) part about being a killer waking up. There is possibly something here to underline the fact that Lucas really has not been in control of his own life for a very long time.

Feel free to destroy this mini-theory at will!

We have to assume Harry and Malcolm know what's in the Albany file since they've made such efforts to hide it away so then surely Harry wouldn't have been so disgusted and angry about Lucas' story because he'd already have known. I'm afraid Lucas has been totally in control of his life up until the moment Vaughn popped up with that suitcase.

Welcome by the way.

[quin]

I just cant believe its the end of Lucas. Where has this whole sorry saga come from ? It makes no sense just now and after next weeks episode,I doubt it will either.

[BravoNine]

(01-11-2010 11:43 PM)molecatcher Wrote:  I'm afraid Lucas has been totally in control of his life up until the moment Vaughn popped up with that suitcase.

Damn to the depth whoever thought up of a "suitcase"!

*kicks suitcase again* This stupid suitcase ruined everything!!

I think now we can replace the term of a crazy person, instead of "basket-case", we should change it to "suitcase-case"

[Kirayuki]

(01-11-2010 11:26 PM)Naivety Wrote:  Harry is the character people love the most, so the fans will always be on his side.

I beg to differ i'm afraid. For me Ruth's more important.

Quote:Lucas has to be going out of the show, so hopefully the script writers will only lose one cast member. Two in one episode would be shocking, even for Spooks, surely?

I tend to agree with this, however they have managed to bring in for this series 2 new grid personel and a new home secretary and there was no problem in replacing them. Losing two in an episode would be a landmark in Spooks history... that day may come, but hopefully not this season.

I'm hoping Lucas goes on his own.

------------------------------------------------------------

Well i absolutely loved this episode! Not enjoyed one so much in a long time.

Best performance award to the man playing Deery, Trevor Cooper. Well done him! Wow.

I have to say this is probably the most i've ever felt anything for Lucas/John. I hate to admit I actually cared when he first told his tale. Then i hated him even more when Vaughn made the reveal.

Well done writers on making someone who really doesn't like a character much feel so strongly about it. *Pat on the back*

Also have to point out that Ruth actually had more development in her character written in this week. (Recently she's been samey which i think is a waste).

Harry did a brilliant job throughout the episode too; with his strongest points being the Lucas interrogation and the letter scene at the begining. Two totally different sides of one person in an episode is great. I also think this ease in his character change probably shows his experience of being detatched in his job.

I don't really know why but i've never really despised Vaughn. I feel somewhat sorry for him... but i still think he got what he deserved. Slimey character at the very least that one.

PS: Congrats to whoever predicted the next time trailer earlier!

[lordantwarrior]

Hi, first time poster, but a longtime viewer. I thought the episode tonight and last week's were both fantastic. They really do pull out all the stops for the run-in to the finales. It's incredible how it's still gripping people after 8 series... I really hope it is allowed to continue doing so for a 10th and even 11th series.

Anyway, I too feel that Ruth's character is perhaps coming to an end in the series, which I was initially sad about, but after tonight's episode I am not sure how I feel about it. I felt that what she did was quite out of-character but then it does show some of the pain these people must deal with. I just feel that what she did has tainted my view of her character and in some way, if next week is to be her last episode, I won't feel as upset as I would have before tonight, as horrible as that sounds.

R.E. Lucas, I think he is a fantastic character which has kept the viewer guessing all the way, but at the same time I won't be overly sad to see him go because of his actions last week and in general. Not to say I don't like him, just that as a character redemption is a pretty unlikely outcome for the resolution of his story and, if anything undeserved.

Just a few things though, what if Lucas HAS forgot the truth? What if he didn't know about the bomb? Maybe they are throwing us another swerve when they show him detonating the device? All we know is that Lucas is very emotionally unstable and perhaps blames himself so much that he actually believes he was more culpable than he was. It's a long shot admittedly but if there is redemption to his story then it is one of few ways I can see it coming to fruition.

[Kirayuki]

Nice first post!

(Paragraphs two and three are where we differ greatly in opinion )

I like the idea of Lucas having actually forgot what he did. It wouldn't be suprising if he was unstable and had told himself over and over it was Vaughn.
I also agree that it's possible that he's not as guilty as he believes, i don't think it likely though i'm afraid.

[binkie]

(01-11-2010 11:43 PM)molecatcher Wrote:  

(01-11-2010 11:25 PM)binkie Wrote:  Hello! I am de-lurking to post this, and I'm almost certainly wrong (or clutching desperately at straws!): is it possible that Lucas in in fact the Albany file? I admit I have no well-thought-out theory to back this up. But it could be made to fit with the Chinese cell in 9.4 having the still-unexplained picture of him.

I think it's interesting that so much of John's backstory was told / suggested to him by Vaughan, even down to the chilling (and brilliant) part about being a killer waking up. There is possibly something here to underline the fact that Lucas really has not been in control of his own life for a very long time.

Feel free to destroy this mini-theory at will!

We have to assume Harry and Malcolm know what's in the Albany file since they've made such efforts to hide it away so then surely Harry wouldn't have been so disgusted and angry about Lucas' story because he'd already have known. I'm afraid Lucas has been totally in control of his life up until the moment Vaughn popped up with that suitcase.

Welcome by the way.

Thank you This is a good point regarding Harry's reaction to the grim goings-on in Dakkar. But now I have another question! How did Harry know immediately that Malcolm mentioned he had "received a visit from Lucas I'm afraid" that it must have been about Albany? Up to this point, as far as I can recall, there has been no discussion of Albany either involving or in front of Harry. Of all the dodgy reasons that could have come to Harry's mind to explain evil!John's visit to the suburbs, why should it be Albany that suggested itself so readily? And why did Malcolm seem to agree that there ws such an inevitability about the visit being motivated by Albany? *is just frastratingly confused and really not liking it!*

[picard1109]

I dunno - if Lucas has forgotten the truth it would all be a bit too close to the Bourne story, wouldn't it?