Series 9 Episode 7 discussion

[JHyde]

OH MY GOD!

I never want to read a fic that victimises Ruth ever again. This was the best writing for her character development since 4.10 and I loved the parallel between her and Deery, about not being wrong. It mirrored Harry and Beth in episode 1 wanting to 'get clean'. NW does such great work in this episode (although the noises she makes as she being putting out are kind of funny) and Ruth once again shows us that she is so much more than the brilliant analyst we know. All the moments with Harry were excellent and I was once again reminded of the classic line from 4.10, that she is a 'born spook'. except this time it is Ruth admitting who she is and mourning, once again, her loss of 'humanity'. But we know her to be compassionate and good - we saw her go and speak with Deery. We know not every field agent does that. It is true that she has the 'wiring' for a spook, but Ruth is much more than she gives herself credit for.

It was great timing bringing back 8.1's events too. Really nicely done.

I love the irony of Lucas really being John and I adored that in the park Beth speaks for the audience, about wanting to believe in him. The scene between Harry and Lucas underground was magnificent and horribly sad, even while you had a suspicion of what was to come. The original set up was horribly sad, about Lucas essentially trying to wipe his slate clean and how he got through his 8 years in Russia. I like that the corruption of the character goes much further back and that, as Vaughan puts it, the killer is now awake.

So who is the real Lucas? I guess we all have fairly solid opinions on that already. But I think we find out for sure next week.

Series 9.8trailer Spoiler: show

The set up for next week looks excellent. Ruth and Harry both in danger? Sign me up.

[BravoNine]

I'm confused on one thing, how is it that it took Beth so quick to find the picture of the real Lucas North when no one else did after the Dakar bombing happened? Did they just not focus on Lucas North then? But I'm sure if he had to go through MI5 processing, you would think someone somewhere would have discovered the picture of the real Lucas North! Surely security couldn't be that bad!! Even when I was enlisting for the military they had to check my picture and backgrounds more than once!!

And it seems that someone has warned Beth about Harry's tendency to shoot/kill traitors, why else would the poor thing be so worried about what Harry's gonna do with Lucas?

[Lomoto]

I am afraid the latest series of Spooks has more holes in the plot, than an MI5 marksman's target,., it seems to have lost it's way from the earlier series..is there a new writer on board ??

The Lucas North storyline is totally unbelievable, and as for the Ruth interlude last night !! What can you say except pure Hokum

[BravoNine]

Looking at Richard's interviews from about 2 months ago to where we are now in the Lucas storyline, he says that Lucas has both light and dark sides of him, and that his character is much more complicated and is effectively a hero. Somehow from the looks of Lucas/John right now, I'm not seeing the heroic side of Lucas/John, I'm not even seeing light and dark, I just see dark. He did say that there is a side of Lucas that is hidden, so is that side John? Is Lucas somehow still in there struggling and fighting to regain control?

Is Lucas really suffering from a bad case of split-personality OR is this all just a very very elaborate farce to draw out the real bad guys??

Hopefully the final episode will finally give us some answers that we have been sitting through 8 weeks to learn!!

[HarriHobbit]

OK so I loved this episode. Besides the odd moments of irrationality (but I mean come on people it IS TV) it was just AMAZING! RA was fantastic as per usual and I felt genuinely hurt when I found out he'd lied to Harry. I was almost prepared to forgive his actions over the last few episodes but now ... I really can't see a way back for Lucas/John.

I guess RA is going to have to leave now anyway due to the fact that I'm stealing him! Well sadly not me but New Zealand and Peter Jackson for The Hobbit!

But onto the theory as to what on earth our favourite sreen writers are planning. I have absolutely no clue now! They've done a fantastic job of blowing every notion I had about Spooks an I'm loving it!

Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't something said in the lead up to this series that it might be something to do with genetics? Call me absolutely desperate for some reason to absolve Lucas of all his sins but is it possible he's I don't know some clone of John or something? Definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel here!

Just remembered what else I was planning on saying about this one, it was great to see some more of Dimitri I really think he's a character with some serious potential.

Can't WAIT for next week!

[redlyn]

(02-11-2010 08:06 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Is Lucas really suffering from a bad case of split-personality OR is this all just a very very elaborate farce to draw out the real bad guys??

We already had Tom going on the run to clear himself...I horribly think that with the pronouncement Lucas North is dead" that he has no way out of this. Although I think it's daft that he's obviously still after Albany - if you were going to run wouldn't you just go? Unless he thinks he has to get it to the Chinese to protect Maya because he knows that she is being watched. However, he did say to Vaughan than dealing with the Chinese was stupid so why would he do that himself! None of it makes sense.

I'm still going to believe what he said about joining MI5 to make up for him actions and suffering in the prison to atone. That seemed a truthful and empassioned part of the story to Harry as opposed to other bit which was a construct. Believing that, at least, makes me think think that not everything we've seen has been a lie. Because how could it be- we've watched his courageous, caring behaviour for two years. HIs moments of going off radar and doing things things his own way (going of comms etc) could fit into John but not the quiet bravery of the rest nor the heartfelt speech to Connie about her betrayal of country.

I'm so upset with what they have done to him that I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it. Obsessed - moi?

[BravoNine]

(02-11-2010 08:48 AM)redlyn Wrote:  We already had Tom going on the run to clear himself...I horribly think that with the pronouncement Lucas North is dead" that he has no way out of this. Although I think it's daft that he's obviously still after Albany - if you were going to run wouldn't you just go? Unless he thinks he has to get it to the Chinese to protect Maya because he knows that she is being watched. However, he did say to Vaughan than dealing with the Chinese was stupid so why would he do that himself! None of it makes sense.

At this point, I'm just gonna say that John/Lucas is going all forms of loco!! He is not right in the head, that's the only way I can explain it! He's got GIGANTIC mental issues.....hence why he is going to stay in my cookie jar where he will be safe and sound...

*pets cookie jar affectionately*

(02-11-2010 08:48 AM)redlyn Wrote:  I'm still going to believe what he said about joining MI5 to make up for him actions and suffering in the prison to atone. That seemed a truthful and empassioned part of the story to Harry as opposed to other bit which was a construct. Believing that, at least, makes me think think that not everything we've seen has been a lie. Because how could it be- we've watched his courageous, caring behaviour for two years. HIs moments of going off radar and doing things things his own way (going of comms etc) could fit into John but not the quiet bravery of the rest nor the heartfelt speech to Connie about her betrayal of country.

I don't even know what to believe anymore. When I first fell head-first in love with Lucas, other people warned me about who he could really be, maybe I should have listened instead of making him up in my head. Maybe he is just a killer, first, last, and always.

It just breaks my heart.

Every moment of courage, selfness, bravery, and loyalty shown, every moment of tender care and compassion.....how do I just forget all that and believe that he really is just this dark cold-blooded killer?

(02-11-2010 08:48 AM)redlyn Wrote:  I'm so upset with what they have done to him that I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it. Obsessed - moi?

Oh don't worry, you're not as obsessed as me whereas I still haven't stopped crying! Seriously, I didn't go to class or go to work today because I was literally worried sicked about Lucas that I actually got sick myself! How amazing is that!! And now my right eye is having issues and won't stop twitching! I should sue Spooks for causing me health damages!! Spooks is a health hazard!!

--------------------

One scene that I keep coming back to is Malcolm/Harry, that whole scene was fishy! Malcolm's dialog that "I had a visit, from Lucas, I'm afraid", his wording and Harry's reaction to it made it seem like they had known that somehow inevitably Lucas would come for the Albany file or go to see Malcolm or something.

Something about that scene just bothers me, makes me wonder what the hell is really going on? And why does the last expression on Harry's face looked like "oh crap I just unleashed a monster"? This better not be a test, because if it is, I will have to toss Harry off a cliff then for sheer stupidity!

[KoiGal]

I really have to agree with Lomoto. I don't think that the writing is as good this season. I always thought that the writers were able to balance strong development of plot, characterisation and relationaships with all team members but it hasn't really come together this season. Poor use of Tariq, Beth and Dimitri.

I can see how all last night's drama appears to be setting up the season's finale for (at best) a three hander between the former Lucas/Harry/Ruth.

I have always rooted for Harry and Ruth but agree with TeaLady that Ruth is beyond redemption now. It was very sad to see the end of their affair.

Who is John Bateman then? Who would be plotting against Team GB in 1995? I distinctly heard a strong regional accent in his 1st flashback. Are there any Irish connections?

Maya. Maya. Isn't she supposed to be a medic? All that shock and horror at Vaughn's leg injury. I've seen a better performance from a pencil.

For goodness sake, leave Harry alone.

---

There was a great deal of dialogue about awakenings. Lucas = sleeper? but for whom?

[BravoNine]

(02-11-2010 09:15 AM)KoiGal Wrote:  Who is John Bateman then? Who would be plotting against Team GB in 1995? I distinctly heard a strong regional accent in his 1st flashback. Are there any Irish connections?

I guess we will get most of the answers in the final episode. A LOT is riding on how this final showdown plays out. Right now this storyline's got about million holes in it that I can drive a truck through it.

Maybe the final episode will explain who John is and what in the world is going on! May just actually tie into Nightingale and that global conspiracy!

And as for Tariq, Dimitri, and Beth, they are rather peripheral, but as newbies I guess they would be, this series is clearly aimed for Harry/Lucas/Ruth. Maybe once this all goes down, next series will start directing attention to the little ones.

(02-11-2010 09:15 AM)KoiGal Wrote:  Maya. Maya. Isn't she supposed to be a medic? All that shock and horror at Vaughn's leg injury. I've seen a better performance from a pencil.

I couldn't decide if she was horrified that Vaughn kidnapped her or because he was stabbed.....

Personally, she's being a rubbish doctor.... Clearly she was not taught the "calm under pressure" thing in med school....

Perhaps she should focus on looking less like a deer-in-the-headlight?

(02-11-2010 09:15 AM)KoiGal Wrote:  There was a great deal of dialogue about awakenings. Lucas = sleeper? but for whom?

I've been wondering if Lucas's whole life had someone else pulling the strings and he was just a puppet but he didn't know? It would make sense that someone messed with his head.....I mean, this John-mess didn't turn up until Vaughn appeared with that dreadful stupid freakin' suitcase (*glares at suitcase*) and a few pictures suddenly changed everything!!

[KoiGal]

Bravo Nine - "Eight years because I stayed loyal to my country". We all though that was the UK. Looking unlikely now...