[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[SPOOK91]

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Do you think Lucas knows about Harry proposing to Ruth?

[yorkshiretyke]

I have just watched 9.7 again......bloody heart breaking especially Harry's face!

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

I still think they will both survive, in fact I have a hunch all three may live, but am not convinced that H and R will be any closer...the only way I think Ruth will be able to move on, is if she is convinced something has/is going to happen to Harry..

[Tea Lady]

(02-11-2010 09:01 PM)SPOOK91 Wrote:  

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Do you think Lucas knows about Harry proposing to Ruth?

Series 9.8 Ian Wylie Spoiler: show

No, I don't see how Lucas could know, but he could still make a joke about marriage. I am sure he has noticed how R and H are round each other or heard office gossip. He knows the only way to get to Harry is Ruth, so he knows how much she means to him.

I wish something had been said about Harry spending the night at the hospital. Sometimes you wish they did an extra version of Spooks, late on a Saturday night or something, which has an extra 15mins of footage.

[Kirayuki]

He may have not stayed the night and had just arrived really early from work or whatever. Doesn't look like he slept at all and he just got there to me. (I do think it's possible he stayed though. I like either version, but i prefer the latter. )

PS: If Harry did stay in the Hospital I doubt he'd want Ruth to know about it.

[SPOOK91]

True, although I don't think anything would have stopped him from staying at that hospital, even if he wasn't in her room I would have thought by the way she didn't seem to be shocked in the slightest to see him that she at least had a pretty good idea that he was there.

[Silktie]

I don't think he stayed the night at the hospital. I think he was on the Grid all night sorting out the mess and came to the hospital first thing to check on her.

On whether Lucas knows about Harry's proposal to Ruth, I would say no. Maybe

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Ruth tells him Harry proposed and she turned him down in an effort to persuade him that Harry won't give up Albany just to save her.

I'm still not convinced that

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Harry will choose to give Lucas the Albany file to save Ruth. It will all depend on exactly what Albany is, and what the repercussions of it falling into the wrong hands will be. I think he'd rather offer himself as a sacrifice before he gives Lucas Albany.

[JHyde]

I think Silktie has it in one, with that last line.

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

There's also the possibility that Maya convinces him to let Ruth go or that Ruth makes a dash for freedom herself.

It's possible that Lucas was told by Ros just exactly how Ruth went into exile and her uses that knowledge here.

I find myself missing Ros especially with this storyline. I miss her take on things!

But back to HR. I also loved that scene in the hospital. I think part of the problem is that Ruth has always been empathetic and compassionate and everything else that she is, but that she is slowly getting better at carrying on after an event like this. That's not to say that it ever becomes commonplace for her, but she is gaining a degree of detachment after the event. Like soldiers gain in war, like Harry has surely accumulated after all his years. She is worried that she is not who she was. (I really want to quote Adrienne Rich here: 'I do not know/who I was when I did those things'. I'm also not the first to make the Rich connection with Ruth this season, see northern exposure's fan fic. She and I bond over Rich! But back to my point.....)

I think she also worries that she is becoming like Harry. PF plays the scene after storming the house beautifully - the look on his face is equal parts distress at seeing Ruth mangled and broken, the scene as it is, and also *pride*, the same pride that had him tell her that she was a 'born spook'. There is also a bit of that same pride, I think, when she tells him that she is ready to go back to work. Except this time I think the pride is drowned out by his better feelings and he is a trifle fearful that the woman he loves is losing HERSELF in this mess.

[Kirayuki]

(03-11-2010 08:58 AM)JHyde Wrote:  and he is a trifle fearful that the woman he loves is losing HERSELF in this mess.

Ooh. Gave me chills reading that for some reason. You have a way of putting things i swear.

But i totally agree. Ruth is definitely falling into the requirements of the job. However seeing as Harry has repeatedly said himself that sometimes he wishes he could just be normal again, i think he worries about not saving her from the jobs repercussions.

[Tea Lady]

(03-11-2010 05:47 AM)Silktie Wrote:  I don't think he stayed the night at the hospital. I think he was on the Grid all night sorting out the mess and came to the hospital first thing to check on her.

On whether Lucas knows about Harry's proposal to Ruth, I would say no. Maybe

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Ruth tells him Harry proposed and she turned him down in an effort to persuade him that Harry won't give up Albany just to save her.

I'm still not convinced that

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

Harry will choose to give Lucas the Albany file to save Ruth. It will all depend on exactly what Albany is, and what the repercussions of it falling into the wrong hands will be. I think he'd rather offer himself as a sacrifice before he gives Lucas Albany.

Series 9.8 Spoiler: show

My guess would be Harry does not give Lucas Albany. That will be an awful decision to see him have to make. I think he will still have some hope that Lucas will not carry out the threat and Harry can offer himself as an exchange, although that would be quite similar to 7.8. I still think though that Albany is nothing. A means to trap a mole. As for Harry leaving messages for his children!!! That has got to me already. No mention of message for Ruth though. God knows what Ruth will think of all this. Can Harry ever do the right thing in a situation like this?

[A Cousin]

(03-11-2010 08:58 AM)JHyde Wrote:  But back to HR. I also loved that scene in the hospital. I think part of the problem is that Ruth has always been empathetic and compassionate and everything else that she is, but that she is slowly getting better at carrying on after an event like this.

I think she also worries that she is becoming like Harry. PF plays the scene after storming the house beautifully - the look on his face is equal parts distress at seeing Ruth mangled and broken, the scene as it is, and also *pride*, the same pride that had him tell her that she was a 'born spook'. There is also a bit of that same pride, I think, when she tells him that she is ready to go back to work. Except this time I think the pride is drowned out by his better feelings and he is a trifle fearful that the woman he loves is losing HERSELF in this mess.

Ruth is on one end and Harry is on the other. He has had 30+ years to "season" into the job, she has had 6 - tops - at MI5 proper. 3.5 before and 2 after her time in Greece.

I think I have rewatched the second scene a thousand times over and am beginning to think that after Harry offers Ruth her psychological assessment as he sees it (e.g. that she still blames him) when she turns around and says to him, "And you'd be wrong" she isn't just referring to him being wrong to choose her over duty, she is telling him that he is just simply wrong in his assessment.

In the hospital, I loved it when he asked her what is the truth. He said "the" truth, but I think he meant her truth. And that he stood there and let her say it. In order for them to survive they have to desensitize themselves. Since this has been such a strong character trait for Ruth, I think she is questioning if it is worth the price. She isn't only mourning the loss of George, Nico and her life in Greece, but she is mourning the loss of a very defining portion of herself as well.

Warning: I feel a Kierkegaard quote coming on:

There is nothing with which every man is so afraid as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming.

Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are.

OK. I'm done.