Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[xzibit_m]

for me, series 6 and 9 have been the best so far. my favourite episodes from this particular series was either the finale, or episode 2 (lift shootout). although there were some loose ends, some of the things in previous episodes sort of explained things more clearly when looking back, that didn't actually make any sence to me before... for example at the end of episode 4, the chinese had a picture of lucas north, to identify him as a possible aid in their mission.. there was about 4 or 5 key moments like this that i'm thinking "ohhhhh"..

the scene on the rooftop was great in my opinion, the view of london was beatuful and the "i wanted to be someone, i wanted to feel something!" "wish you'd met me first" was a powerful line.

the fact ruth cried when she found out lucas died and harry had survived was also really good, that she actually showed emotion for the first time, rather than not being affected like in the past..

i hope in series 10 harry is back, and that alec isn't! his character is too dull or something i can't quite put my finger on it, perhaps it's becuase he was drugged up and got a call to start working though..

on a final note, when i heard the scream, and lucas' body hit the car to trigger the alarm go off, my heart melted richard armitage was a fantastic actor and played lucas to the tee, as he did with guy of gisbourne in robin hood, its sad to see him go.. just a shame that he went becuase he is appearing in 'the hobbit'..

[John LeCarre]

the plot overall had holes and assumptions, but the point of Spooks is to show the human angle. Firth and Armitage were excellent. It didn't matter to me if the Lucas character jumped the shark-this was definitely an angle which was not explored by Spooks. The Gone Bad, betrayal of faith character.
It was handled well considering Lucas went sour in 6 episodes-but his history was dubious anyway.
Connie was a sharkjump, but luckily the series came back to reality.
I think the 2 newer characters(junior officers) are going to need a lot of work. There is not much there at the moment, but unfortunately for BBC, this series costs money.
Overall, still the best entertainment on TV

[JHyde]

I did forget to say that I enjoyed Alec's introduction, although I think it would be a real stretch to make him a Section Chief. I don't think he will be. At the very least, a Section Chief needs to be in tip top physical shape and sober (most of the time). So either someone will be parachuted in from Six or another Section in Five OR Season 10 is all about Harry.

Is it just me or does Vincent Regan look like Gerard Butler?

[BoHenley]

(10-11-2010 08:13 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(10-11-2010 08:07 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I have to say that Maya got me excited for all of about 8 seconds in this episode. I really thought when she mentioned Alec and Harry to Lucas at the RV point, that she was a mole or agent. Naaaaaa, turns out she started off dull and died dull!

Even when she was angry, her voice sounded exactly the same, it's like she has no passion. She was extremely dull! I've seen ameobas with more personality!

No, can't agree Bravo, amoebas are amazing one cell creatures that are ALIVE. This woman was clinically dead - HA! And she was a medical doctor (allegedly).

I've gone back to buying straws, but I reckon it's possible Lucas/John raided Harry's house and pinched a suit for THAT scene. Strewth, Lucas could do everything else by then (cars, computers, medical equipment...)

And bloopers - I'd LOVE to see the bloopers! Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

[BravoNine]

(11-11-2010 09:38 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  No, can't agree Bravo, amoebas are amazing one cell creatures that are ALIVE. This woman was clinically dead - HA! And she was a medical doctor (allegedly).

You are right, ameobas are amazing creatures! I should not insult the beautiful ameobas!

Medical doctor? Of what exactly? She spent a whole episode hyperventilating and looking like a squirrel-facing-incoming-traffic while Vaughn laid there with a knife in his thigh.......she's useless!

I can do better medical jobs than her!!

(11-11-2010 09:38 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  I've gone back to buying straws, but I reckon it's possible Lucas/John raided Harry's house and pinched a suit for THAT scene. Strewth, Lucas could do everything else by then (cars, computers, medical equipment...)

Yeah, Lucas or rather John, has been holding out on his sudden appearance of magical abilities!

Well, Lucas did joked that he and Harry were a "sexual thing", LOL! Maybe it was more true than what we thought it was? I mean, those two always had a weird relationship.....and then you got Lucas knowing Harry's favorite opera and now clothing size?

(11-11-2010 09:38 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  And bloopers - I'd LOVE to see the bloopers! Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Oh god bloopers would just be the best! I can already imagine them in my head!

[BoHenley]

Interesting that VAUGHAN was the real catalyst in this series (not Maya), and it's a pity he didn't get a bit more screen time and/or backstory. Because of Vaughan's actions, we ultimately have the deaths of five people (that we know of):

a) Lucas/John
b) Maya
c) The running man from the cafe
d) the real Lucas North
e) Vaughan himself
and that's before you count the deaths in Dakar.

In retrospect, the Lucas/John-is-a-traitor storyline is courageous and a big gamble from Kudos. Hooray for something challenging, even when they'd figure that destroying one of the show's popular characters would be anything but. Otherwise, it's a boring, stereotyped series, and sorry, but we get far too many of those. I just would've liked a slightly better WRITTEN ending/wrap-up - and I'm okay with Lucas ending his life. It's where 10 episodes would give the writers time to EXPAND THE STORYLINE.

Can't see Harry "going away from the office" for more than one episode. Can see him linking up with his family for a brief moment.

And sorry, don't kill me, but I'm obviously the only person in the world who doesn't want to see Tom return (my opinion only). MM's gone on to bigger things. Please, let's have someone NEW.

[tyme4t]

(11-11-2010 06:15 AM)JHyde Wrote:  Is it just me or does Vincent Regan look like Gerard Butler?

It's just you....LOL!

[HellsBells]

When Lucas is talking to Ruth, he said he been so careful, hiding his real identity. So why did it take Beth only a couple of hours to find a picture of the real Lucas North. Surely Lucas would have erased every file once he had access to MI5 data.
And back to an idea I posted before, why didn't Lucas just kill Vaughn the moment he saw him, considering Lucas was really evil John. Come on writers TOO MANY HOLES!!

[BravoNine]

(11-11-2010 12:25 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  When Lucas is talking to Ruth, he said he been so careful, hiding his real identity. So why did it take Beth only a couple of hours to find a picture of the real Lucas North. Surely Lucas would have erased every file once he had access to MI5 data.
And back to an idea I posted before, why didn't Lucas just kill Vaughn the moment he saw him, considering Lucas was really evil John. Come on writers TOO MANY HOLES!!

Yeah, there were quite a few holes hanging around when one actually sits down and think about it logically.

But I do LOVE the Lucas/Ruth scene so much, poor Lucas sounded like a little boy who's afraid of his mom finding out his dark dirty actions. Poor thing...

[NightOwl]

(11-11-2010 10:12 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  In retrospect, the Lucas/John-is-a-traitor storyline is courageous and a big gamble from Kudos. Hooray for something challenging, even when they'd figure that destroying one of the show's popular characters would be anything but. Otherwise, it's a boring, stereotyped series, and sorry, but we get far too many of those. I just would've liked a slightly better WRITTEN ending/wrap-up - and I'm okay with Lucas ending his life. It's where 10 episodes would give the writers time to EXPAND THE STORYLINE.

Courageous and a big gamble imply that the writers knew what they were risking and did it anyways. It seems like they should have but I wonder. For all the plotholes, they didn't leave themselves any wiggle room to resurrect Lucas, in either body or spirit. If it's because they were committed to the story and viewer response be damned then, I agree with you. But if it's because they didn't anticipate that so many viewers would respond so negatively, then I'd guess it had more to do with their egos, the new writers not wanting to have to play by the rules other writers had established, than courage.

Do TPTB do any podcasts or interviews where they discuss their intentions or views?

I don't think the writers would have used an additional two episodes to expand the storyline. I believe the writers made a deliberate decision to cluster everything in the last two episodes. I think we got four episodes of Vaughn doing little more than saying "I need your help, John." If the writers had wanted to provide more background or motivation, they had ample time to do so.