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KitKat385 · 20-11-2010, 02:17 AM

(20-11-2010 02:09 AM)binkie Wrote: Byatil, I will definitely come back to what you have said before (and again here) about the many significances of the tattoos. There is actually a thread for Lucas and his tattoos. Between us, we can resurrect it!

Call me up when that happens! Smile

I always wished they'd talked a little more about them in the show...it seems like most of what I know from his tattoos are interviews RA's done talking about them, plus the few snippets that have been thrown in we can kinda figure out ourselves (like the eight domes (is that what you would call them..?) on his back = eight years in prison).

BravoNine · (This post was last modified: 20-11-2010 02:24 AM by BravoNine.)

(20-11-2010 02:14 AM)Byatil Wrote: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I wanted Harry to look Lucas in the eye and finally see what he had done, finally realise that his actions do affect real people, and that they aren't just there at his disposal. I was really hoping for some kind of epiphany from Harry on that part... he's always so cold and distant, in a way, and Ruth is the one person who seems to bring him down to Earth again. Whilst also being the one person who connects to people on a more emotional level than the others.

This was why I always LOVE the scene when Harry and Lucas had that fight over Sugarhorse. That scene was so poignant to me when Lucas yelled "Don't you dare try any of your sanctimonious good of the nation crap on me! There are limits to what you can ask of people, Harry, even in our line of business."

It was like Lucas's way of trying to get Harry to realize just what it's doing to me, it's like Lucas is screaming "Can't you see what you've done to me, to your people?" and then Lucas leaves but not before mentioning what's happening to Jo.

I always wish that Harry would explain, he at least owed Lucas that much. It was always something that I hated Harry for. Harry just seems to expect his people to take it, he forgets that they are the ones fighting out there on the field. I thought Harry would realize when Tom broke down, but I don't think Harry has realize that, maybe he did after Ros died, but still, he just expects his people to take it and not have some mental breakdown. I was glad that Lucas challenged Harry in that sense. Glad that Lucas can still tell Harry like it is, not like a submissive subordinate, but like an equal.

And it's why in my fanfic I am exploring that distance and coldness that Harry has and make him realize that his people need him too.

KitKat385 · 20-11-2010, 02:25 AM

(20-11-2010 02:21 AM)BravoNine Wrote: And it's why in my fanfic I am exploring that distance and coldness that Harry has and make him realize that his people need him too.

Haha speaking of that wonderful fanfic, care to tell us when we might expect the next chapter? Big Grin

I'm hearing all these wonderful hints, and it's making me antsy!

binkie · 20-11-2010, 02:28 AM

(20-11-2010 02:01 AM)BravoNine Wrote: This is why my fanfic is going to explore much deeper into those 8 years of horror, how that effected Lucas's psyche and his relationship with Harry. If the writers won't give me that, then I will do it myself because I am tired of being cheated!

Happy to be a reader Smile

I do have stuff for the Harry and Lucas thread. It pains me to say it, but I do feel as though Harry has - to a great extent - been excused whatever he did or did not do in relation to Lucas because addressing this plotline would require some serious analysis of Harry's status as the indestructible line of continuity in the show. I do, seriously and genuinely, believe Harry Pearce to be a brilliantly drawn and thrillingly well-played character. But I also wish we could be trusted with a little more intelligence as to the decisions he makes, and the whatever feelings he has, about people in his life besides Ruth. This isn't a criticism of either Harry or Ruth, just an expression of an interest in their development away from references - implicit and explicit - only to one other.

Byatil · 20-11-2010, 02:30 AM

(20-11-2010 02:21 AM)BravoNine Wrote: This was why I always LOVE the scene when Harry and Lucas had that fight over Sugarhorse. That scene was so poignant to me when Lucas yelled "Don't you dare try any of your sanctimonious good of the nation crap on me! There are limits to what you can ask of people, Harry, even in our line of business."

It was like Lucas's way of trying to get Harry to realize just what it's doing to me, it's like Lucas is screaming "Can't you see what you've done to me, to your people?" and then Lucas leaves but not before mentioning what's happening to Jo.

Oh gosh yes, I completely skimmed the entire affair with Jo. It was so tragic, the way that she was essentially left to her own devices and ultimate her own demise... just because no-one cared enough to realise she was badly traumatised.

And I love that quote! It was so tense, because Harry so obviously didn't want to have to justify himself to Lucas - which is why a trial in S10 would be interesting. Harry would finally be forced to justify his actions, instead of just using the old "the ends justify the means" excuse.

Also, if anyone's interested, I've taken the first step to reviving Lucas' tattoos thread; http://www.spooksforum.co.uk/thread-418-page-10.html?
Go forth and discuss! Wink

BravoNine · (This post was last modified: 20-11-2010 06:51 AM by BravoNine.)

(20-11-2010 02:25 AM)KitKat385 Wrote:
(20-11-2010 02:21 AM)BravoNine Wrote: And it's why in my fanfic I am exploring that distance and coldness that Harry has and make him realize that his people need him too.

Haha speaking of that wonderful fanfic, care to tell us when we might expect the next chapter? I'm hearing all these wonderful hints, and it's making me antsy!

Well, what I can reveal is that Patryk and Lucas will reunite, we see Vaughn and Maya, Alec White will make his appearance, and there is a reunion in Section D as Malcolm, Tom, and Ruth come face to face again after years of being apart.

Some other stuff are happening too, but I can't reveal too much! Those are just general stuff, but I plan for much juicier small details of the scenes, so I can't really tell you that without spoiling my whole plot! Big Grin

(20-11-2010 02:28 AM)binkie Wrote:
(20-11-2010 02:01 AM)BravoNine Wrote: This is why my fanfic is going to explore much deeper into those 8 years of horror, how that effected Lucas's psyche and his relationship with Harry. If the writers won't give me that, then I will do it myself because I am tired of being cheated!

Happy to be a reader

I do have stuff for the Harry and Lucas thread. It pains me to say it, but I do feel as though Harry has - to a great extent - been excused whatever he did or did not do in relation to Lucas because addressing this plotline would require some serious analysis of Harry's status as the indestructible line of continuity in the show. I do, seriously and genuinely, believe Harry Pearce to be a brilliantly drawn and thrillingly well-played character. But I also wish we could be trusted with a little more intelligence as to the decisions he makes, and the whatever feelings he has, about people in his life besides Ruth. This isn't a criticism of either Harry or Ruth, just an expression of an interest in their development away from references - implicit and explicit - only to one other.

I always wished they explored more Lucas and Harry, in fact, I thought that was what Series 9 would get into, but alas Series 9 was a failure in that sense.

So now I'm gonna let my story tell the real relationship of Lucas and Harry, the one that the writers SHOULD have given us.

(20-11-2010 02:30 AM)Byatil Wrote:
(20-11-2010 02:21 AM)BravoNine Wrote: This was why I always LOVE the scene when Harry and Lucas had that fight over Sugarhorse. That scene was so poignant to me when Lucas yelled "Don't you dare try any of your sanctimonious good of the nation crap on me! There are limits to what you can ask of people, Harry, even in our line of business."

It was like Lucas's way of trying to get Harry to realize just what it's doing to me, it's like Lucas is screaming "Can't you see what you've done to me, to your people?" and then Lucas leaves but not before mentioning what's happening to Jo.

Oh gosh yes, I completely skimmed the entire affair with Jo. It was so tragic, the way that she was essentially left to her own devices and ultimate her own demise... just because no-one cared enough to realise she was badly traumatised.

And I love that quote! It was so tense, because Harry so obviously didn't want to have to justify himself to Lucas - which is why a trial in S10 would be interesting. Harry would finally be forced to justify his actions, instead of just using the old "the ends justify the means" excuse.

Jo's story was sad, at least Lucas gave a warning to Harry about it and then Connie went to help Jo out. But Jo died a hero, and I think it was the first time that much emotion was shown from Ros.

I always thought Harry owed Lucas an explanation, Connie's words was a cop-out of Harry's responsibilities, which is why in my fanfic I will go back and explore the past of what really happened in Moscow and why it took Harry 8 years to bring Lucas home.

Although I did like the scene with Harry and Ben sitting in the car at the exchange, it was the first time I saw Harry being anxious, at least that's how he seemed to be, like he was worried, as if he was thinking to himself, would Lucas blame me? What would he be like? Have they destroyed him? What condition would he be in?

BoHenley · 20-11-2010, 09:22 AM

What great summaries of S7.1 - all of you. I'm going back to watch it tonight AFTER I've watched the broadcast of 8.4 - and I'll just have to pause it over one scene... Angel

BravoNine · 20-11-2010, 09:27 AM

(20-11-2010 09:22 AM)BoHenley Wrote: What great summaries of S7.1 - all of you. I'm going back to watch it tonight AFTER I've watched the broadcast of 8.4 - and I'll just have to pause it over one scene...

I want to go back and enjoy Series 7 and 8, but I guess I am having a hard time erasing Series 9 from my memory, it just tainted all those great lines and moments Lucas had. Dodgy

*kicks writers and hits them with baseball bat*

I am still determined to go back and watch the old series no matter what, I will not let the writers ruin Spooks for me! Angry

BoHenley · 20-11-2010, 09:32 AM

I refuse to let the silly ending ruin Spooks for me, so good idea Bravo. There were parts that were terrific, and the acting from all but one character was superb. I just wished they'd given us a more believable and satisfying ending. So it's S7 first!

binkie · 20-11-2010, 09:41 AM

(20-11-2010 09:22 AM)BoHenley Wrote: What great summaries of S7.1 - all of you. I'm going back to watch it tonight AFTER I've watched the broadcast of 8.4 - and I'll just have to pause it over one scene...

I'd be really interested to read your analysis of this episode. It is such an important episode for Lucas, and such an unusually detailed piece of writing on a subject not often properly accommodated in prime time drama.

I would like to do a write-up for 8.4 (and probably will at some point), but it seems polite to let somebody else get a word in edgeways! Wink

Looking forward to reading your assessment.