Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[binkie]

(03-12-2010 06:10 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  Yet another completely objective opinion from a Lucas fan. *rolls eyes*

At the risk of getting myself a slap on the wrist, I must say there is something about the tone of your comment that comes across as more than a little judgmental and nasty. If I was really going to press my point, I could go so far as to suggest there was an undertone of misogyny.

Why do you suppose that Belle's perfectly legitimate analysis of the writing of a show she likes (and has signed up to your board to discuss) conveys a less substantive or objective opinion than yours simply because she talks about a particular character or plot device? This has something about it of the kind of dismissive attitude that suggests a 14 year old girl cannot have good tasste in music, or must necessarily be a fan of a particular teen phenomenon, for no other reason than that she is a 14 year old girl.

Would you have made your comment if Belle had chosen to illustrate her point about the quality and texture of the writing this season using the example of Harry?; or Ruth? Why characterise her as a 'Lucas fan'? Can she not simply be a fan of the show?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I have been really impressed with the community here, and it would be a shame if members felt they could not express their opinions because someone was waiting in the background to wave those opinions away with nothing more reasoned than eye rolling.

[Belle]

Thank you to BravoNine and Binkie for defending my point of view!

I am a 33 year old woman and I've been a fan of Spooks for the whole 9 years it exists! So this has nothing to do with having some sort of 'highschoolgirl crush' on a character in particular!
I must admit that I liked Lucas' character,( is that wrong?!) but I also like(d) Harry, Ruth, Ros, Jo, Malcolm, Tom, Adam, Ben, Jo, Zaff, .....
My interpretation of S9 has nothing to do with Lucas as such, It's not my fault the writers have messed it up in this case, is it? I could also have pointed out that another reason I find this season a bit sloppy, was the lack of serious backbones for Beth and Dmitri, or the way they were underused because in previous seasons the 'minor' characters were more deepened out than it has been the case this year.
I hope this forum will remain the pleasant space on the internet were I /we can share our thoughts and feelings about our (still) beloved series in a decent and grown up way, without the fear of being laughed at or something like that!

[BoHenley]

Thank you Binkie, Belle and Bravo (and potentially others). Sorry, Nitrus, but I was offended by your comments. I also like the character of Lucas, and the actor who played him, but like Belle, I also like Ruth, Harry, Adam, Ros, Jo and a long list of supporting cast. With all characters, we invest our emotions in following their stories, their wins, their defeats...Lucas is just one. I also miss Ros, Adam, Zaf (and others).

If you dislike the Lucas character, fair enough, no-one has to like all the characters (why should we?), but please don't "rubbish" the posters who DO like the character of Lucas. Yes there are fans of Richard Armitage who watch it, but that also means ratings, and ratings are what ultimately drives the continuation of the show.

And if you think I'm a 14yo giggling schoolgirl, I'm 52, and I've watched Spooks since S3 (stopped watching S1 after the second episode - sorry, that was too much!)

Going back to "sloppy": From a writing point of view, S9 did have some great stories, but the new characters were underdeveloped again (won't even mention Tariq), the ending was hashed and poorly written and I won't even go into the lack of continuity from S7 and S8. That IS SLOPPY writing. If it were a book, the Editor would hand it back and say "Fix it up!"

Now, getting back to the thread: I think the footsteps on the roof and the 48 hours give the writers of S10 an "out" to get the character back...IF THEY WISHED. It does leave an opening of doubt, however miniscule (no body), and of course it does allow them to end the character as well.

[Nitrus]

I apologise if my comment offended anyone, that wasn't my intention at all. I'm just a little tired of hearing the same thing all the time.

I guess there are better ways of dealing with that.

[binkie]

(03-12-2010 10:10 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  I apologise if my comment offended anyone, that wasn't my intention at all. I'm just a little tired of hearing the same thing all the time.

I guess there are better ways of dealing with that.

Oh, believe you me, we're just as tired of writing about the same thing all the time!

It's frustrating to be reduced to kicking one of your favourite shows because you can't get past the thing that screwed it up this one time. It is, honestly, about more than just the identity of this one character

[Kirayuki]

I've said it before but I wont say it again after this for fear of kick starting a war.
(No offence meant here though guys!)

I understand that there were a few (and i mean 'a few') writting issues this series... but it really isn't fair the amount of stick they are getting on here when the series came off well, people did enjoy it and a good majority were satisfied with it. Also, given it was their first series I will definately allow the 'few' issues.
I think this is probably what is annoying people.

Sorry, I will now remove myself from this thread for fear of assasination...

[Belle]

apologies accepted, Nitrus!

I understand that some of the posters get tired of reading the same things over and over again, but I was just commenting and sharing my opinion and feelings after the post of HellsBells (and others) on what the footsteps may have ment.
That is what fora are about, right?
I guess we differ in opinion about the standard of writing, but hey, a 1000 people have a 1000 different opinions, that's what makes this (and other fora) so interesting and meaningful.
To learn from and respect each others point of views !

[BravoNine]

The series did came off well, mostly because the actors brought out their A-game and turn this storyline into something powerful and emotional that the writing itself couldn't offer.

I don't mean to sound like a grouch over this writing and its issues, but as a writer myself, it annoys me to no ends when storylines don't connect or make sense the way Series 9 has with the Lucas storyline. With this show, I put my heart and soul into it, and I feel like the writers at least owed me that amount of effort rather than just quickly try to gloss over a good decent explanation. When I write, I am always so perfectionist and meticulous that I consult books, read timelines, and do everything to make sure the history and storylines stay on track, I just feel like the writers didn't do enough of that with Lucas's storylines.

I'm not saying that this whole entire series was horrid, it definitely wasn't, there were plenty of great stories and scenes where the team were amazing and the writers did a great job of it, but they messed up with the Lucas storyline and it just disappoints me.

Maybe I have put these writers too high on a pedestal, or maybe I had too high of an expectation after all the great stories this show has had, and I understand it's not always easy for the writers. But I guess I just expected more.

[binkie]

(03-12-2010 10:31 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  Sorry, I will now remove myself from this thread for fear of assasination...

Ha ha! Fear the stylistic pedants...feeearr uss

[BravoNine]

(03-12-2010 10:31 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  Sorry, I will now remove myself from this thread for fear of assasination...

Nooooo she's running away! After her! *evil demonic flying bunnies chases after Kirayuki*

Don't worry about differing opinions, no one will ever have the same views on everything, but that's what makes this forum and this world so interesting as long as we respect each other's opinions!