[spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas.

[HellsBells]

Really interesting quotes,

(14-12-2010 06:19 PM)Byatil Wrote:  “Do what you will, this world’s a fiction and is made up of contradiction.”

"Opposition is true friendship."

"When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend."

Well I think these three fit perfectly with series 9 Lucas, may be the writers read the same quotes as you Byatil.

"It is easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend."

If Lucas is going to be in series 10 (straw-clutching again) is quote will probably relate to Harry and Lucas.

[BravoNine]

(15-12-2010 12:12 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Well I think these three fit perfectly with series 9 Lucas, may be the writers read the same quotes as you Byatil.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

NOOOO Must not let anything validate the horrendous writing of Series 9!!!!!!

(15-12-2010 12:12 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  "It is easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend."

If Lucas is going to be in series 10 (straw-clutching again) is quote will probably relate to Harry and Lucas.

Maybe we can have ghost-Lucas appear and be Harry's evil conscience or something like that, like in cartoons when they would have an angel and a devil perched on each side.

[HellsBells]

No I'm didn't mean to in anyway validate the writing of series 9! That just can't be done, unless they redeem Lucas in series 10.
Series 9 probably would have been fine if we hadn't actually had series 7 and 8 in between. This whole storyline could have worked if we didn't know Lucas very well.

Maybe Lucas could be the angel and John the devil on Harry's shoulders. And let's face it if the same writers are onboard anything is possible.

[BravoNine]

Oh good, here I thought you had fallen to the dark side!

Now I have to wonder if Maya's general non-existent personality was the writers' fault/decision or the actress's, because I saw Laila Rouass on Sarah Jane Adventures and she actually had an existent personality!!! So clearly Maya could have a personality too but she didn't!! So now I'm left with wondering why!

I mean, how could one not have chemistry with a beauty like Lucas? Everyone's had chemistry with him, so why was Maya so......dead? I'm starting to feel like the writers did this, it's all part of their nefarious plan to destroy Lucas!!

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I wish Spooks had gone the way that Numb3rs (a US crime drama show) had gone. Numb3rs had a storyline where one of their loyal agents, Colby Granger, was outed as a double-agent and spy for the Chinese in the season finale, caught by his own team and sent to prison, it left everyone confused and shocked, and I'm pretty sure half the fandom died of heart-attacks. Colby was always so loyal, and the fans had always been able to count on him as the go-to guy to protect his team, but all of the sudden, all that changed. Then, we learned the truth when the next season premiere rolled around that Colby was really actually working for the Department of Defense to act as a double agent to feed false information to the Chinese and uncover a Chinese-planted mole in the DoD. It took a while for the fall-out of what happened with Colby to settle and for the team to trust him again, but he was still a hero in the end, he was always loyal.

Maybe Spooks can give Lucas the same consideration? He may not be around anymore but that doesn't mean they can't posthumously change his reputation by the team discovering that Lucas had been a pawn and used by the Chinese or Russians to destroy MI5, and that he was truly loyal.

[HellsBells]

Liking the idea BravoNine!!

We need some sort of redemption for Lucas in series 10, whether posthumously or not.
I think Maya didn't have enough screen time to be a real character, which of course was the writers fault. Most of her time was spent listening to Lucas telling her he loved her.

[BravoNine]

(15-12-2010 02:36 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I think Maya didn't have enough screen time to be a real character, which of course was the writers fault. Most of her time was spent listening to Lucas telling her he loved her.

While it is true that she suffered the lack of screentime and repeated scenes of just listening to Lucas, but that can hardly be a good excuse for the non-existent personality. Plenty of actors/actresses can make an expression even with just 10 seconds of screentime, and really, how can anyone not react to RA looking at you lovingly and with such adoration?

I wouldn't even have to "act" if RA was looking at me the way Lucas looked at Maya.

[BoHenley]

I agree, BravoNine. I KNOW I could act better than that with RA in front of me (is breathing required??) And I like your idea from the Numb3rs storyline too - something like that could partially redeem Lucas (are you listening Kudos writers???)

As HellsBells mentioned, the story could've worked if we had a new character called John Bateman who first appeared in S9 but who's goal was to betray the Grid through his link to Vaughan. What doesn't work is how they tried to smash this into Lucas's already-built character. From a writing perspective, IT DOESN'T WORK. From a Spooks fan's perspective, it was cruel.

[HellsBells]

(15-12-2010 11:17 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  From a writing perspective, IT DOESN'T WORK. From a Spooks fan's perspective, it was cruel.

Exactly, there have been some amazing analysis and insight into Lucas's character (series7 &8) in this and other threads, which I believe is how RA saw the character. In some interviews he mentioned saying 'What!' on reading the scripts. It is clear to me that the writers of series 9 didn't watch the early series otherwise they would see how crazy their idea was and how it required a huge suspension of belief.

We all know that actors leave, but all the other grid members have been allowed to leave as heroes, even Connie. Us Lucas fans have been denied that.

[Byatil]

A point of interest: in 7.7, Lucas is sent to Russia to retrieve an asset. The two share a quote "When you love someone, everything is understood", penned by the Russian revolutionist Maxim Gorky. I say "revolutionist" because Gorky was a Marxist - another man who didn't agree with the system of capitalism. He was imprisoned a number of times, and became quite revered in Russia for his work - even making friends in Lenin and Stalin.
It's interesting how Lucas is constantly linked to these figures who (to a point) resent society and the various systems within it. Even more so, as the link to Gorky suggests that Lucas befriends people whose beliefs he doesn't necessarily share or agree with.

On reflection, could this also link to Elizabeta? If she loved him she would have understood?

[HellsBells]

(17-12-2010 12:18 AM)Byatil Wrote:  Even more so, as the link to Gorky suggests that Lucas befriends people whose beliefs he doesn't necessarily share or agree with.

On reflection, could this also link to Elizabeta? If she loved him she would have understood?

This would also linking-in with his relationship with Sarah, don't you think?