Lucas North Speculation

[BoHenley]

(18-12-2010 07:25 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(18-12-2010 06:16 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  ....walking out of the shower please!!!

You're not having one of those fantasies again are ya?

Works for me! Of course, it's only so we can analyze those tattoos...

(18-12-2010 07:25 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  I should think it would be rather simple to remake him into a good guy again, I already have a million plausible ideas that can excuse his actions. Not that hard if the writers just use their brain for once.

USE THEIR BRAIN(S)??? Oh dear...

But I agree. It's easy to do with the right story. Brainwashed, manipulated, blackmailed...tortured...I've seen some bloody good ideas on this forum. Just requires good PLANNING, with a PLOT that ties into what we already know.

I doubt Lucas could go straight back to MI5, but he could be "held pending investigation," brought out for an assignment, and even if he died during that assignment (if they really want to end the character) it'd be better than the crud of S9. I like your link with Tessa idea too, BravoNine.

[Byatil]

But then the issue is that if they bring Lucas back with a big 'redemption' plot... the series he appears in will once again have to focus mainly on him. I love Lucas' character, but I don't want him to be the focus of the show! If they wanted to give a proper explanation I get the feeling it would take up a lot of screentime. Unless it was a fleeting comment by a senior Chinese official (or whichever nationality you believe might have set him up); think Connie in 7.8 "It was me, Lucas". Something like that would work. But then we'd be back at square one - if we assume Lucas to be alive, we're back to the 'de-briefing' and attempts to prove his trustworthiness. If he's dead, then at least it would give fans some closure, but then again the point may be that you can't always find closure. There are some questions that are always left unanswered.

[BravoNine]

(18-12-2010 11:34 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  

(18-12-2010 07:25 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(18-12-2010 06:16 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  ....walking out of the shower please!!!

You're not having one of those fantasies again are ya?

Works for me! Of course, it's only so we can analyze those tattoos...

Oh yes of course, analyze the tattoos...*coughcough*

(18-12-2010 11:34 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  

(18-12-2010 07:25 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  I should think it would be rather simple to remake him into a good guy again, I already have a million plausible ideas that can excuse his actions. Not that hard if the writers just use their brain for once.

USE THEIR BRAIN(S)??? Oh dear...

But I agree. It's easy to do with the right story. Brainwashed, manipulated, blackmailed...tortured...I've seen some bloody good ideas on this forum. Just requires good PLANNING, with a PLOT that ties into what we already know.

I doubt Lucas could go straight back to MI5, but he could be "held pending investigation," brought out for an assignment, and even if he died during that assignment (if they really want to end the character) it'd be better than the crud of S9. I like your link with Tessa idea too, BravoNine.

Yes I know using their brains is a bit of a stretch, but perhaps after all the time I spent threatening them with flamethrowers and pitchforks have finally worked! A girl can dream eh?

I already have a good idea that can tie perfectly into the storylines, and I've see plenty of others with good ideas too. So clearly it's not that difficult to make it work, the issue is more of will the writers actually want to use the effort or will they want to be lazy again.

I don't even care if Lucas will go back to MI5, maybe they can have the team discover that maybe Lucas is alive, and that he was used as a pawn and brainwashed or manipulated by the Chinese or Russians to betray his country and team and basically they are using Lucas to bring down MI5 and get Harry out of the way. Maybe they save Lucas and get him away from the bad guys, but they discover that his mind has been so badly damaged by the tortures and what the bad guys have made him do and how they had messed with his head that his very fragile psyche can't handle it anymore and he suffers a complete breakdown and maybe go into a catatonic state where he just simply can't function anymore. The story could end that they put Lucas into a mental care facility in the hopes that maybe one day his broken mind can heal.

I mean, a story like that would totally work, and it would be so perfect in the dramatic and tragic sense that it basically shows just what one would really have to sacrifice for this line of work, it would be perfect to show how this job can destroy a person so completely, and what they have to loose.

Wouldn't that be a better story to tell with Lucas's character? I mean, he sacrificed so much already, why not do it all the way instead of this complete 180 character flip!

[Byatil]

It seems slightly pretentious to presume that the Russians/Chinese would be so preoccupied with 'getting rid of' Harry He's one man in a vast organisation; why would they want rid of him? And why would they construct such an elaborate plot?

[BravoNine]

(19-12-2010 12:21 AM)Byatil Wrote:  But then the issue is that if they bring Lucas back with a big 'redemption' plot... the series he appears in will once again have to focus mainly on him. I love Lucas' character, but I don't want him to be the focus of the show! If they wanted to give a proper explanation I get the feeling it would take up a lot of screentime. Unless it was a fleeting comment by a senior Chinese official (or whichever nationality you believe might have set him up); think Connie in 7.8 "It was me, Lucas". Something like that would work. But then we'd be back at square one - if we assume Lucas to be alive, we're back to the 'de-briefing' and attempts to prove his trustworthiness. If he's dead, then at least it would give fans some closure, but then again the point may be that you can't always find closure. There are some questions that are always left unanswered.

Well with these writers, I doubt closure is a word they understand.

I wouldn't want him to overtake the show again, but there are plenty of clever ways to infuse Lucas's redemption, whether posthumously or alive, into the story without it taking over all other storylines, it just takes a writer who is actually willing to put effort into making the storyline work and know how to balance the characters, which apparently these writers do not know how to do.

But in the hands of an efficient writer, it is not hard to find a good balance point to give Lucas the deserved redemption and not have it take over the story.

(19-12-2010 12:26 AM)Byatil Wrote:  It seems slightly pretentious to presume that the Russians/Chinese would be so preoccupied with 'getting rid of' Harry He's one man in a vast organisation; why would they want rid of him? And why would they construct such an elaborate plot?

Well in my view, apparently Harry is the only one with half a brain that seems to be working, I mean, have you seen those higher up at MI5? Apparently none of them have working brains, and seeing as how MI6 is always going rogue every 5 seconds, so it would not be hard to assume that the Russians/Chinese see Harry as an obstacle for them to be easily overpower MI5 or something like that.

Sure it would be an elaborate plot, but in this way, they not only remove Harry as an obstacle, they embarrass him, ruin his reputation, embarrass the UK government, and they get the satisfaction of metaphorically stabbing a knife in Harry's heart by using his star prodigy against him and have Harry realize he couldn't save his boy.

It just seems to me something that the Russians/Chinese would cook up, they are a bit sadistic like that. (no offense to the Russians/Chinese but as a Chinese person myself, I do know something about this sadistic streak when it comes to war and revenge....)

[BoHenley]

(19-12-2010 12:36 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  I wouldn't want him to overtake the show again, but there are plenty of clever ways to infuse Lucas's redemption, whether posthumously or alive, into the story without it taking over all other storylines, it just takes a writer who is actually willing to put effort into making the storyline work and know how to balance the characters, which apparently these writers do not know how to do.

But in the hands of an efficient writer, it is not hard to find a good balance point to give Lucas the deserved redemption and not have it take over the story.

Yes, I didn't mean for the Lucas story to take over the series either. As you say, Bravo, a good writer can infuse it in one/a few episode(s) and keep the other story arcs going.

(19-12-2010 12:36 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Well in my view, apparently Harry is the only one with half a brain that seems to be working, I mean, have you seen those higher up at MI5? Apparently none of them have working brains, and seeing as how MI6 is always going rogue every 5 seconds, so it would not be hard to assume that the Russians/Chinese see Harry as an obstacle for them to be easily overpower MI5 or something like that.

Sure it would be an elaborate plot, but in this way, they not only remove Harry as an obstacle, they embarrass him, ruin his reputation, embarrass the UK government, and they get the satisfaction of metaphorically stabbing a knife in Harry's heart by using his star prodigy against him and have Harry realize he couldn't save his boy.

I think Harry would make an excellent target for any opposing side (plot-wise, that is) and make an interesting story as they try to decimate MI5.

[HellsBells]

(19-12-2010 05:02 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  Yes, I didn't mean for the Lucas story to take over the series either. As you say, Bravo, a good writer can infuse it in one/a few episode(s) and keep the other story arcs going.

Does anyone know which writers will be involved in series 10, presumably writing must be underway by now? I really hope they are good and have at least watched earlier series.

I think if it turned out that Lucas was dead after being manipulated by 'outside' agencies, that would be very tragic knowing he died without knowing the truth.

In 9.2 when Lucas asked Harry 'Did you trust Ros' and Harry replied 'Implicitly' I always thought that was Lucas's way of telling Harry that he had to trust him no matter what happened, which why I thought there had to be a twist in the storyline.

[BravoNine]

(20-12-2010 12:52 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I think if it turned out that Lucas was dead after being manipulated by 'outside' agencies, that would be very tragic knowing he died without knowing the truth.

Exactly, surely that would make it even more dramatic and tragic from a storyline stand-point, not to mention bring more angst to the other characters, especially for Harry who will now have to realize that twice he let other agencies walk away with Lucas and didn't do enough to save him before it's too late, just imagine the guilt Harry would have to face knowing that he let his prodigy down again. And Ruth would be a little happier knowing that it wasn't really the real Lucas who kidnapped her and did those horrible things, that everything she believed in about Lucas is still true. And poor Tariq, Dimitri, and Beth can still have their big-brother figure to hold up and hero-worship, have someone to fight for.

Not to mention it redeems Lucas, but it also can give Harry the drive he needs to fight off this inquiry against him because he will want to take back his position at MI5 and go after the people who messed with Lucas. Didn't Harry always say that he will go after with vengeance whoever harms his people?

This gives them something to fight for, Lucas wouldn't have to be the center of the story, but he could be the drive for this team to stand strong together and fight back.

(20-12-2010 12:52 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  In 9.2 when Lucas asked Harry 'Did you trust Ros' and Harry replied 'Implicitly' I always thought that was Lucas's way of telling Harry that he had to trust him no matter what happened, which why I thought there had to be a twist in the storyline.

I sort of scoffed and snorted when Harry said "Implicitly", did he somehow forgot the whole Series 6 incident and all the betraying she was doing then? I love Ros but she wasn't Ms. Perfect-MI5 either, she and Lucas had a lot more in common than either one of them wanted to admit, that's why they get along so well.

[HellsBells]

(20-12-2010 04:47 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  This gives them something to fight for, Lucas wouldn't have to be the center of the story, but he could be the drive for this team to stand strong together and fight back.

I just love your thinking, Bravo. The whole scenario would be great, if we have to accept that Lucas is indeed dead.

[BravoNine]

(21-12-2010 03:40 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  

(20-12-2010 04:47 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  This gives them something to fight for, Lucas wouldn't have to be the center of the story, but he could be the drive for this team to stand strong together and fight back.

I just love your thinking, Bravo. The whole scenario would be great, if we have to accept that Lucas is indeed dead.

Thanks!

I don't have an issue accepting that Lucas is dead, as hard and heartbreaking as it would be for me, after all he has suffered, death is probably the only chance he's got for some peace of mind.

I just want his exit to be deserving of the character and the sacrifices he has made for his team and his country, so for him to be tossed aside and probably for those higher-ups to drag his memory through the mud next series, it's just unfair and wrong.

At least this way, it's a small consolation for the fans who lost Lucas, it redeems the character in the right way, and it gives this team something to band together and fight for, gives something for Harry to stand back up on his feet and push off this inquiry.