7.8 [re-watch]

[JHyde]

Ros, Lucas and Connie are under fire as they hurry through London underground and Harry walks into the lion's den to try and help.

Discuss!

This will be the last episode of the re-watch, as from this point on we have individual threads for discussion anyway.

[A Cousin]

Another great episode, I think, and a great cliff hanger. If only for the following reason: Tiresias. One of the things I love about Spooks is that I learn something new or make a new connection during re-watches.

So, I am probably the last person to this party, but "Tiresias" is loaded with symbolism and significance. Much more than Sugarhorse. (Drinks in Harry's office - as MR joked in the DVD extras.) I had thoughts running around my brain about The Sleeper and Connie being the manifestations of the Tiresias network. I am vaguely familiar with the Tiresias myth from Sophocles' plays Oedipus Rex and Antigone. Less so from his appearance in Homer's Odyssey.

Anyhoo, for anyone bringing up the rear with me, it aaaalll started with that oh, so very significant bottle of water that The Sleeper drinks (in slow motion, mind you) sitting on the bench. This rang a very vague bell in my head re: the Tiresias myth. I'll just lay it out there and hope I'm not making connections that aren't there. I'll try to stick to the myth only as it pertains to 7.8.

Tiresias was the son of a shepherd and a nymph and made a soothsayer of Apollo by Athena, Zeus or Apollo himself - depending on the version you are reading. The story goes that, coming upon two copulating snakes (Britain & the US?) he struck them with his staff and killed the female. This pisses Hera off who immediately turns him into a woman (in essence emasculating himself). He lived as a (very successful) prostitute for 7 years. (The Sleeper lives in deep cover as something he not, "selling" himself as believer in the ideals of the West?) After the seven years, goes back and strikes the same male snake, killing it and transforming back into a male himself.

Then he is blinded and made a prophet due to it but I won't go into that. There are many versions as to how this happened, but I have not divined as much significance re: 7.8 from them.

After an extremely and unusually long life as a prophet of Apollo, he dies after drinking from a poisoned spring. (Thus the very significant chug on the bottle of water.) As Sophocles tells it, Tiresias was visited by Apollo and warned of his own death after drinking from a forbidden spring after which Apollo was going to shoot him with his arrow. (The Sleeper drinks the water and the next thing you know he has been shot between the eyes by Sarkisian's man.)

But, wait, that's not all! As I was watching, I made a note to myself that says "Tiresias - underground?" Moving to Homer and Connie's very flippant and quick explanation of Tiresias as the prophet who is doomed to look backwards for all eternity, Tiresias meets Odysseus in the underworld (Tube tunnels?) and warns him about many things most of which Odysseus pays no attention to. To his great detriment.

So, yeah, a bit of a twig for me. Sorry if I am dredging up something everyone else has already figured out. Feel free to add or correct. I am fascinated by this idea!

Other general thoughts about this episode:

- Lucas is absolutely epically BRILLIANT in this episode. He really has his mojo working!
- Holding my breath during Connie's bomb diffusing scene. Again.
- Ros and Connie "You hate me because you are looking in a mirror" scene is just fabulous!
- The look on Harry's face when Lucas convinces him to leave them and return to the Grid is wrenching. He really wants to help and protect them.
- Why is Lucas reading the microfiche with a magnifying glass? I guess Ruth never did return that Reader in 5.3?
- At least the Russians were helpful enough to give the team a good solid dead-line. 3pm. Very helpful.
- Shifty CIA chick. What's a Spooks without a shifty CIA person?
- Portable nuclear bombs? Really? I'll have to check that one out.
- Malcolm all but begging Harry to come back is heartbreaking. Love how they play it off flippantly. Good black humour.
- The Sleeper - no lines. In fact the only sound he makes is the Star Spangled Banana (sic. pardon my pun.) on the piano. Nice touch.
- Do I believe Connie re: selling Lucas out? Do you?
- Shocked that by the end of this series I feel like I have experienced 2 or 3 series. So much has happened! It holds together so very well. Still my favorite series.

[Tea Lady]

+ rep for that great post A Cousin.

My favourite Spooks scene, possibly of all time is in this episode, when the Russians are all huddled together and the agents are getting their instructions. They are then sent on their merry way to get OUR spooks. Everytime it makes me want to shout at the screen and try and warn them! Silly I know.

Loved the Harry V Connie moment in the safe house. The way Harry is just physically imposing himself over her. She doesn't really flinch though. He doesn't intimidate her. Its only the coded message that gets to Connie. She's not scared of Harry.

[A Cousin]

(12-07-2011 08:52 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Loved the Harry V Connie moment in the safe house. The way Harry is just physically imposing himself over her. She doesn't really flinch though. He doesn't intimidate her. Its only the coded message that gets to Connie. She's not scared of Harry.

I love the way that scene is shot - with the camera low and behind Connie, with Lucas and Ros framing Harry. The body language of Harry, Ros and Lucas says everything about how each of them feel about her at that moment. Ros sits facing her directly but with arms and legs crossed. Lucas is turned partly away barely able to look at her. Harry stands strongly and openly in front of her.

Her terror at hearing the coded message mirror The Sleepers reaction too. It is almost as if they never really expected it to actually happen.

Tick. Tick. Tick.... Creepy! I think that is why I "like" the Connie character so much. She is just so deliciously evil and Gemma Jones is just too brilliant in it.

Did some looking into the suitcase sized nuclear bomb idea and, to my relief but not surprise, no one seems to have been able to make that happen quite as conveniently with the ability to do the kind of destruction as presented in this episode. At least no one admits to it. The US and Russia are the only ones who have come even close. The US's smallest one is about 100 lbs and Russia's is the size of a refrigerator. A fact that got me giggling when the image of Lucas gingerly carrying a refrigerator into the bowels of the London Underground for Connie to defuse. Again, it's a case of what Spooks does so very well: taking a credible idea and spinning it into epic proportions.

[lottanyman]

Everytime I read such an elaborate post it makes me want to watch that episode immediately and check on all those points myself. I never notice so many connections and references to other things...

I also very much like the scene in the safehouse and after having only recently finished a re-watch of all series I can also confirm that S7 is one of my favourites (if not "the" favourite but I may be biased as it was the first series I watched)

(12-07-2011 02:17 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  - Do I believe Connie re: selling Lucas out? Do you?

I'm still not sure on this. There is so much going on around this statement that I feel there is not enough time to really think about it. That's why I'm neither sure whether Lucas believes this. And then he doesn't get a chance to talk about it with Harry...

[A Cousin]

(13-07-2011 08:14 PM)lottanyman Wrote:  

(12-07-2011 02:17 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  - Do I believe Connie re: selling Lucas out? Do you?

I'm still not sure on this. There is so much going on around this statement that I feel there is not enough time to really think about it. That's why I'm neither sure whether Lucas believes this. And then he doesn't get a chance to talk about it with Harry...

Taking the analogy further, Connie, as one of the personifications of Tiresias, takes a swig or two from her gin bottle before she is killed at the hands of the bomb planted by her Apollo. I think that she was not going to be able to diffuse the nuclear aspect without tripping it, thus, like Tiresias, she knew she was going to die. She also takes a swig from her Gin bottle. In the legend of Tiresias' death, he drinks from a spring by the name of Tilphussa which was known to be tainted (Gin = poisoned water?). This spring was guarded by the nymph Telphusa whose name derives from tiphos being a pool of standing water or marsh, and tilphê, filled with insect larvae. To beat the dead horse of symbolism, if Connie is Tiresius, she gives her advice - to both Ros and Lucas (the hero's of our tale = Oddyseus?) - but is not believed by either of them. Or at least not fully. Which would be why Lucas feels he needs to confirm it with Harry. Ergo, Connie is telling the truth about being the one who turned Lucas into the FSB all those years ago.

[beatrice4ruth]

I have the feeling that Lucas did not believe Connie. During the whole time he was with Section D, he appeared to have been blaming Harry for his imprisonment in Russia.

Series S9 Spoiler: show

In 9.8 I was struck by Lucas's flashbacks of his torture in Russia during his phone conversation with Harry, who was pleading for the release of Ruth. Lucas needed Albany not only to save Maya from the Chinese, but also to take his revenge on Harry.

Series 10 Spoiler: show

I hope that S10 will explain why Lucas was imprisoned in Russia. There must be some connection with Harry's past either during the Cold War or perhaps with a more recent interaction with the Russians. To me, it is a puzzle.

A Cousin - Thank you for the advice.

[A Cousin]

re: Lucas believing Connie. That might very well be, beatrice4ruth. As lottanyman says, Lucas did not get a chance to talk to Harry about that. The critical immediacy of the job always get in the way of these poor people. That is definitely an ongoing theme of Spooks.

What about Ros? Did she believe Connie when Connie told her that Ros hates her because Ros is looking in a mirror? Although I can see the similarities to Ros of S6 in Connie, I think Ros didn't believe Connie at all. Or maybe Ros thought it might be true at one time but was not any more? And is it me, or does Ros show a split second of respect for Connie just before she and Lucas run to escape the explotion? Maybe even admiration? Or recognition?

---

BTW, beatrice4ruth, I *think* you might need S9 spoiler tags. I'll leave that to a Mod to decide. Thanks for the s10 tags!

[Sparky]

I thought this was another great episode and brought to a conclusion one of the best series of Spooks. I loved the 'chase' across London underground and Harry using his skills above ground to avoid getting shot. I liked Connie as a character and was glad to see that she got some chance at redemption.

The ending was fantastic, Harry alive but in a body bag and a boot - great cliff-hanger and way better than the endings of most series (other than 2 and 4).

[Silktie]

Yep, this is a fantastic episode and a worthy end to one of the best seasons of Spooks. The reason I enjoy it so much is that each member of the team is a hero in his or her own right. Lucas is the action man that literally puts his life on the line to save London; Ros with her calm assurance steering Connie to deliver their salvation; Harry who offers himself up to directly save the lives of his officers, and thus indirectly to save London; Malcolm who has to watch all his friends and colleagues put themselves in danger and not being able to do anything to help them - yet doesn't deviate from the instructions, and doesn't disturb his Mother's peace of mind; and Jo who after all that she has suffered, still is able to show enormous compassion and poise throughout, especially during her phone conversation with the HS.

Gemma Jones steals this episode for me, though. It is a great performance, from her belligerence and the disturbing 'tick, tick, tick' during the confrontation in the safe house to her final sacrifice, she doesn't miss a beat. I felt kinda sorry for her, having to spend so much time running around at her age - she must have been knackered at the end of shooting.

Of the minor characters I enjoyed the HS and Victor Sarkissian a lot. Both have small but significant parts to play. And not forgetting the sleeper guy - I forget his name. One thing I don't understand though, is why he stayed after planting the bomb. Why didn't he plant it a bit earlier and hightail it out of the danger zone? That would have been my plan.

Lots of symbolism and significant little moments in this one as well. Kudos to A Cousin for that analysis of the meaning of Tiresias. I've read The Iliad, but have to admit that I don't even remember the Tiresias story from it. The quiet moment between Malcolm and Harry is touching, and shows how much these two men have come to depend on and admire each other. Then there is the little beat when Harry tells the HS about Tiresias - first he asks him whether the phrase Rain From Heaven means anything to him. It's a great character moment. Harry doesn't know who could be sleeper agents, and this is his way of checking whether the HS is in the clear. And also the HS' reaction after ordering the evacuation of parliament - he stays in his office, putting his life in his trust that Harry and his team will pull it out of the fire.

Re Connie's confession to Lucas that she was the one who sold him out, I believe her, and here's why: Throughout the episode she remains defiant about her betrayal, justifying her actions and acting snotty towards Harry, Ros and Lucas. She even tries to tell Ros they're the same, once again trying to legitimise her actions by aligning herself with Ros. It is only when she realises that she is unable to deactivate the bomb without killing herself, that her attitude changes. She says 'Some things that were lost can be refound' and I believe she is talking about the self-respect she lost by betraying her country. She knows then that the only way she can save everyone is to sacrifice herself, and in the process win back her self-respect. Her confession to Lucas is another step in this evolution - it is the equivalent of the religious act of confessing your sins before you die, so you can die with a clear conscience.

I also think Lucas did believe her. If he didn't, we would have seen this storyline taken up in season 8, but it never comes up again. And regarding season 9

Series 9 Spoiler: show

and the use of the flashbacks to the torture during the showdown on the roof, my impression was that it was aimed at showing the Lucas and John personalities warring with each other, in other words it was meant to show the confusion of the character as to which of the two represented the real man, rather than an attempt to show he still blamed Harry for his capture in Russia. The whole scene on the roof is really about Lucas' confusion about who he was - hence him saying 'I'm no-one' when Harry asked him that exact question. If it was meant to be about all the things he still blamed Harry for, would he not have shot him then before throwing himself off the roof?