[spoilers] Ruth

[lwhite53]

(22-09-2010 12:25 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

(21-09-2010 11:03 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  

(21-09-2010 02:25 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I agree with JHyde, Ruth's final speech is very honest and real. The only way they can live honestly with each other and themselves is on the grid. Off it they would have to repress it all. A relationship cannot function in dishonesty. She knows that very well because she was not honest with George and it killed him.

I don't really get this at all. How is Harry being dishonest by asking Ruth to marry him? Why does Ruth assume that being married equates to conventionality (living in a cottage somewhere)? Is she saying that any relationship borne of love is now out of the question? I'm more inclined to believe that she's the one being dishonest -- she's basically denying everything that's happened over the past 8 years.

Just catching up on this thread, and all these posts are brilliant.

Ok, I understand the whole Ruth "not wanting to live a lie" anymore than she has to do already, thing. But putting my pragmatist hat on, why can't she marry Harry, live in London, and still work at 5? Why is that life, living a lie? I am afraid that I still don't understand the excuse that she gave.

Ruth will ALWAYS have to hide what she does for a living, for the rest of her life, with whoever she meets, wherever she lives. I think Ruth has almost decided in her head, that she is not meant to have a family, not meant to have a husband, not meant to have close friends. Look how she reacted when Beth was offered to her? A look of dread, at someone living close to her, in her private space.

So she fears that without work, she and Harry will be nothing, because Ruth's life is her work and so she believes it is the same for Harry. Well I don't believe you can be in love with someone and just be satisfied that the working relationship, however close, will be enough. If you love someone you need to be intimate with them.

Also, when Harry asked Ruth to marry him, she said "I can't." Not "I won't" or just plain "No." It was Ruth back in Harry's office again in 4.3. "I can't have dinner again." Ruth is a born analyst and thinks things through 150% before coming to a decision. She does the same with Harry. People say Harry isn't a romantic. I think Ruth is even less of one than Harry.

Thanks TL -- you've clarified, quite well I might add, what my issues are. Harry didn't ask Ruth to marry him, resign their jobs and move off to conventional wedded bliss somewhere in the country. He just asked her to marry him. All the rest of it is her assumptions about what that means.

And the "living a lie" bit -- that's Ruth's guilt over George's fate speaking. Marrying Harry and working on the grid would not be a lie -- it's the inevitable outcome to the 8-year setup of the HR relationship. What screws up characters and story lines is inconsistency -- the willing suspension of disbelief thingy doesn't work if you change the rules in the middle of the game.