[spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas.

[Belle]

(25-11-2010 11:41 PM)binkie Wrote:  

(25-11-2010 10:59 AM)Belle Wrote:  He longes to be the pre-russia Lucas, but somehow he lost that person whilst in prison.
Everything he does is a quest to try to become that Lucas again.

I understand what you mean when you say this, but I’m not convinced Lucas does actually want to ‘be’ his pre-Moscow self in the way you suggest. I think the situation is rather more complex. It will almost certainly be very important to Lucas now that his time in prison not be dismissed as an eight year black hole. The initial expression on his face in 7.1 when Malcolm says: “Is it really eight years?” is one almost of irritation, then confusion and disappointment, before softening into conciliation and the placatory comment about Russian prisons being like holiday camps: “They have mattresses and everything.” Lucas is beginning to realise here that those eight years will never mean the same to other people as they do to him. He will actually become, in some ways, quite protective of those years. By the time of 8.7 he is even able to make jokes about them, characterising them to the Hindu translator as an: ”eight year reading sabbatical”. That time belongs to him – it is literally part of him, written on his skin - and it is for him to make sure it continues to have meaning. Undoing that time, reversing through the black hole, is unthinkable. To do so would be to strip that huge portion of his time, and all the pieces of his life that went into making it, of any value. I think Lucas probably looks fondly on his pre-Moscow self, in the same way he would at childhood pictures. But I think he recognises it would be dangerous to think he could be that person now, and that it would be equally dangerous to want that.

I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say with this .
I don't think Lucas wants to errase the 8 years in prison, because they are indeed very important and indeed a serious part of him. Anyway, such a dark period can't ever be really whipped out, I think.
I get the feeling, however, that he wants, or wishes, to be able to be the pre-russia Lucas in terms of feelings. We, as a viewer, know little or nothing about the pre-russia Lucas, but I can imagine that he was a lot happier and felt more sure of himself and of who he was (NOT including S9, here, simply because it's easier to make my point ). I really think that he's striving to feel the way he felt before his ordeal in Russia, that it is his ambition to feel safe, trusted and secure again. Not to forget the pain, but to be able to make it more bearable in one way or the other.

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(25-11-2010 08:22 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

(25-11-2010 07:59 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  Harry's line was "Pactum Serva, whatever the cost", meaning that he would defend the country whatever the cost, he was saying this to Lucas's realization that Maya had been sacrificed for nothing and Harry didn't do a damn thing because to Harry, it was all about the faith and the service.

Harry always expects his people to be strong enough to take it, not realizing that not everyone is like him, maybe now faced with what happened to Lucas, it will make him realize, although I doubt it. Harry Pearce didn't try hard enough to save Lucas, he will always be about the service. He sacrificed innocent lives for the greater good, his agents for the greater good, so what's two more lives with Maya and Lucas.

Ahh, I see. Well yeah, that makes sense. The ends always justify the means for Harry. That's why he needs Ruth, to remind him that "people aren't just chess pieces".

It's very sad really. Harry is almost an embodiment of the terrorists he fights. At the end of the day, they're all fighting for 'the greater good', no matter who gets caught up in the process. As Kachimov said "there will always be another courageous young man to take his place".

I second this feeling! I do think Harry didn't do what he could to help or 'save' Lucas. Not when he was IN prison, not when he was released (and not when he was JB, this story still doesn't work for me, but it is an other example of Harry leaving Lucas behind).

I have no idea how a secret service really works in terms of moral guidance and support to its officers, but isn't Harry obliged to help his officers, also mentaly ? I mean it's in everybodies interest that 'the defenders of the realm' are mentaly sane, in order to do their job at their best!
Since Harry is head of section D, I can imagine that it is part of his job to look out for his officers, that, like some of you suggested, he should be some kind of father figure to them.
But to me, he seems bothered almost if his officers show human traits. (Although he seems to become somewhat more human towards Ruth in S9).
It is a shame that he treats his 'mignons' like they are pieces of a machine, if one goes down, it can be replaced? I'm not saying Harry has no feelings what so ever, (he shows mourning if an officer dies, he was willing to talk to Ros when Adam died), but it doesn't seem enough to me.

I think al this coldness is some sort of defence mechanism.(that doesn't make it right, of course!)

Sacrificing innocent lives for the 'greater good' is what they call 'collateral damage' isn't it? I think that you are inclined to loose a part of your humanity when you are in this line of work, because you wouldn't be able to live with yourself if you don't reduce it to mathematics and simple numbers. But I also think it's going to bite you in the back at some point, as we are beginning to see with Harry.
I guess when you are in a war and you are on the 'right' side you are a hero, when you are on the other side, you are a terrorist.