Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[binkie]

(29-11-2010 11:03 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  

(29-11-2010 10:43 PM)binkie Wrote:  Even if we hand wave the total lack of continuity with established information regarding the role of memory in the characterisation of Lucas, there is still an almighty problem attached to this device in the internal politics of season 9: If Lucas cannot remember that he is John, what is there for him to be careful about? Even if he is referring to a general carefulness, undertaken in the early days of his deception (and I may have to bleach my brain after posting this), that line to Ruth places her absolutely at the centre of fear of discovery. I ask again: a discovery of what? Applying the so-hidden-he-is-hidden-even-from-Lucas logic of John's place in a deep dark hole in the deep dark middle of Lucas' apparently impenetrable memory of personal identity, surely there can be no awareness of anything waiting to be discovered, or needing to be hidden..

That one did shout at me... I think it again depends on whether you can view Lucas and John as two separate people.

It may be John saying that he was so careful not to be discovered by Lucas, as well as by anyone else. (Ruth does at one point start saying that she wants to speak to Lucas...)

In this case, Lucas isn't the one being careful until about mid-way series 9 when he starts to do bad things and knows he can get caught for them. He manages to cover his tracks in terms of mysterious phone calls and loitering to an extent, which is really all he could see himself needing to o until John became more apparent.

(I hope this makes sense and it's not just waffle. I'm trying to work at the same time here. )

Hmmm... I have to say, I do think Ruth insisting she wanted to speak to Lucas was intended by the writer of the episode to expose the extent to which she was out of her depth and in unfamiliar psychological territory. (Yes, I am mixing my metaphors. It's late. What are you going to do about it?). I'm not sure it was intended to validate the idea of a discrete value of Lucas still available for instant recall.

The idea of John remaining determinedly hidden suggests a level of conscious effort in both the hiding and the remaining hidden. I think also it would require a kind of dialogue of concession with Lucas in which Lucas agreed not to go looking. Both these elements are fraught with the threat of discovery and exposure. What did created-Lucas, with his moral drive and stripped-down virtue, have to gain from such an agreement? It seems unlikely created-Lucas, imbued with the qualities devised for him by forgotten-John, would have committed himself to any such agreement in the first place. How forgotten, anyway, is someone who is able to surface, apparently on a daily basis, to make the deal described to Harry in 9.7? The Gollum logic bothers me.