[spoilers] Sir Harry Pearce - Return of the Jedi (#3)

[beatrice4ruth]

(22-09-2011 02:55 PM)loladom Wrote:  Sorry, I have to pick up on some of these points

(22-09-2011 10:44 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  Harry did not tell Ruth that his reinstatement was only temporary.

Ruth was sitting right behind Harry when the terms of his temporary reinstatement were spelled out to him by the judge. She is fully aware.

(22-09-2011 10:44 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  I hope that Harry is not going to do something reckless now that he knows that his days are numbered as head of Section D. He might give up fighting all the rumors or just keep fighting to save his honor.

Reckless? Harry? Well that's his trade mark. However, Harry has faced the threat of losing his position on several occasions and each time he has viewed the moral stance above his own interests and his job. The instance of the burglary and stolen briefcase springs to mind. He has never tried to protect his own arse. His recklessness has never stemmed from the need for self protection. His officers, and Ruth yes, but himself -no. If he remains in character, the temporary nature of his position will not affect how he 'serves his country in what capacity he is required to' And any bending of rules for Elena and Sacha will be about them, not him.

(22-09-2011 10:44 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  if indeed Harry is the father of Sascha, his secret has been an open secret for a long time, even from the beginning. He had been having the affair with Elena for at least 5 years, according to the age of Sasha on the flashbacks. To me, it would have been impossible to hide it from intelligence agencies for so long.

We don't know how long the physical affair lasted. The scene in the park was perhaps when the defection was called off, or when Harry was told about Sacha. Of course they didn't take family outings to the park, they were ‘enemies,’ they were married, it was the 80s. You don't think people were able to conduct affairs in secret?

And how on earth do you conclude it is an open secret??? Why do you believe so many people knew for so long? If that was the case, Elena would not have survived 30 yrs living back in Russia. Harry is a spy, their lives were cleverly crafted. (And he was a married man having an affair....clever at that, they are )It's totally feasible to have kept this secret. That's how the whole spying game worked, assets were kept for years. These guys were masters at their game. Probably more so in the cold war than at any other time.

(22-09-2011 10:44 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  The CIA through Jim Coaver knew about it. I can't believe that MI-6 did not realize that Harry went beyond the official use of an asset.

We don't know what Jim Coaver knows exactly. He was in on the possible defection and he hinted at Harry and Elena being close that doesn't mean he knows about the boy for certain. We also don't know what he told his superiors, he burned the file remember? Loss of defector=loss of face for Jim. Field agents are mavericks, often working on their own. It's highly possible that neither the CIA nor MI6 knew the extent of Harry's affair. To them, she may well have just been Harry's honey trap and asset. The powers that be cared little how agents turned their assets. How much did Harry ever really know about Tom and Christine or Lucas and Sarah while it was actually happening?

(22-09-2011 10:44 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  The KGB monitored its citizens very closely, even in East Germany. The meeting of Harry, Elena and Sasha at an official-looking location was way too obvious. D

What official location? It looked like behind apartment blocks to me with the fenced in playgrounds so typical across Europe, including Eastern Europe and especially typical to Moscow. And yes, I’m old enough and travelled enough to say that with confidence.

I don't understand why you're finding it so difficult to believe the KGB didn't know everything at the time. The whole spying game during the cold war ran on the fact that so many secrets were kept. Even within Russia itself there are countless real life stories of secrets – state and personal. If the KGB knew everything about everyone, then none of the political movements to dismantle the Soviet block would ever have come to fruition! It's like North Korea now, don't believe the propaganda that they know EVERYTHING. Because they don't. If MI6 and the CIA knew everything in real life, 9/11 would never have happened.

And do we know this relationship took place in East Berlin? Harry talks about Berlin, he could've been stationed in the West, from my understanding there were lots of KGB agents spying in West Berlin too. The Gavricks could’ve been under cover in the West. Possible (Could someone with a diary check Harry’s entry for Berlin?)

Sorry, but this is looking for holes based on assumptions we don't actually know yet. I'm just trying to enjoy an excellent Tv show with some degree of perspective. I know Spooks will always suspend reality, it's a drama, (a melodramatic one) after all, but let’s give it credit where it actually can capture realism.

What puzzled me about the flashback was the obelisk in the garden? To me the scene did not look like a playground. I remember the playground of the Zagreb orphanage where one of my sons was raised and it was derelic with a few apparatus such as swings and sandboxes. The orphanage was fenced off with the playground in the middle of the grounds. In 1991 we went to other playgrounds in Zagreb, at the time communist Yugoslavia, and besides their rundown equipment, I can't remember them fenced off the way we see it in the flashback.

It will be interesting to find out whether they met in West Berlin. I think that Jim Coaver talked about East Berlin.

I have never been to Moscow. But I was in East Berlin in the early 80s and remembered too well being followed by the Stasi, which was not a very pleasant feeling. It might have been because I worked for a European embassy in West Germany and visited friends from an Ally embassy in East Berlin. We were told in no certain terms that we were monitored by the Stasi and we were not allowed to go where we wanted to. The persons who told us that were well aware of the situation for a very good reason. I can't say more, it's classified!

What I am trying to say is that Harry was not an ordinary tourist. I am sure that the KGB knew that Harry was an Ally intelligence agent, however good he was. I think that he was more closely watched than a regular citizen. After all, I remember Harry or was it Jim saying that from 1981 to 1984 Elena was working for them. It's a long time and I still can't believe that nobody knew about his secret, especially if Elena was already married to the KGB officer Ilya. She must have been crazy to have an affair with Harry. She was risking her life already then.

Up to now, none of the previous storylines have bothered me. I have just accepted them at their face value. Perhaps because I knew the era and the location, this time I am more sensitive to the storyline. If I cannot quite believe it, that's my problem.

Even if the plot was totally absurd, it does not really matter. The greatest joy for me is to watch PF and NW together. I am also looking forward to the impersonator plot.