Episode 6 Discussion [rewatch]

[Nitrus]

Watch and discuss!

[lwhite53]

The leftie in me really likes the political statement in this ep -- trampling civil liberties is no way to protect them! Loved the "mistaken identity" plot device, which is still very much an issue today (big article in today's Washington Post about a woman who's name is very like someone on the "no fly" list and she gets stopped every time she tries to board a plane). Also lots of spy stuff in this ep -- face matching, CCTV surveillance, trailing suspects, bugging rooms, etc.

Great performance by Jimi Mistry as Malik -- you really felt the poor guy's dilemma, being squeezed from both ends and used as a political football by both sides. Was really impressed by Zaf in this ep -- he was damned if he was going to shoot Malik, even after Harry ordered him to, twice: "I didn't join this service to shoot innocent people."

I was a little put off by Fiona's, "This is great, almost makes me believe in civil liberties" line -- I found her cynicism somewhat unbelievable. Loved Harry asking Ruth to "acquire" the missing Special Branch report, knowing that she might have to do something dodgy to get it -- he really does trust her.

This is as close to a happy ending as I can ever recall in spooks -- Malik and his family are saved and a safe future provided for them, the bad guys are killed, the assassination is thwarted, Zaf doesn't have to shoot, and Harry gets a win against both Juliet and Paul Seymour.

[JHyde]

This episode is the closest we get to a Zaf storyline in his time on the show. For that reason alone, it's a worthy watch.

I will actually watch the episode before commenting any more.

[Tea Lady]

This is a good episode and I didn't think like that lwhite53, but it is a happy ending for everyone which makes a nice change. The actor who plays Malik is great although I think he has been in some other program in the UK, Eastenders perhaps?

The Liberation Group is obviously based on the UK human rights group Liberty who appear in the press everytime someone breaks a nail while being questioned by the powers at be or gets filmed on CCTV. I guess this story is still relevant today as there is one UK national still resident at Camp X-Ray without charge.

Loved Juliet in this episode, when she sprung through the pods shouting at Harry. I thought Ruth had some interesting moments in this episode and will put more on the H/R thread.

Zaf did well although I am not convinced Harry could have ordered him to shoot in reality. You can not order a UK police office to shoot so I assume it would be the same for the security services.

[Silktie]

I agree this is a great episode for Zaf. And he looks mighty fine in it too, I might add.

It is great to see a show that addresses the consequences of the new homeland security legislation we have in many countries after 9/11. It is such a difficult balancing act to ensure that the country is kept safe, but also to ensure that innocent people aren't caught up in it, as happens here. Luckily we have Harry as the moral guardian, prepared to take on anyone to ensure that Malik's rights are respected once he's convinced of his innocence. Lots of great Harry moments and quotes in this one, such as to Ruth: "Do you also turn water into wine?", and at the end when Juliet says that she must discuss Special Branch guy's future with him: "I wasn't aware he had one." Hee!

It's quite a baptism of fire for Jo as well, isn't it? She must have thought at the beginning that it was all rather exciting - writing speeches for people and planting bugs, until she was confronted with the very real human cost the job can have. Suddenly she seemed to realise that it wouldn't be all fun and games.

Ruth was her usual awesome self in this one. It seems there really is nothing she can't do. Her little spiel to the poor sap in Special Branch she used to get that file is very funny. Born spy indeed.

[A Cousin]

(12-07-2010 05:52 PM)Silktie Wrote:  It is great to see a show that addresses the consequences of the new homeland security legislation we have in many countries after 9/11. It is such a difficult balancing act to ensure that the country is kept safe, but also to ensure that innocent people aren't caught up in it, as happens here.

And to make sure that "we" don't create our own monsters! Seymour certainly did that with Malik. This is a very real worry. Think about GitMo.

There are three very nicely intertwined plots going on here: Zaf/Malik, Jo's first day, and Harry taking down yet another corrupt politician. The plot is propelled by assumptions on the part of, well, everyone. Since we find out the truth with the team, we are left assuming that the info they have is true.

Malik is such an excruciatingly sympathetic character. No wonder he is so disillusioned and bitter. Malik is an innocent in more ways than being innocent of the crime he was sent to jail for, he is an innocent in the ways for the government and the ways of terrorists. He trusts that his family will be released if he follows through. I think that's actually naive. Zaf could easily go the way of cyncism, but he refuses in the end despite pressure from both Harry and Adam to shoot Malik. This is one of the few episode that tears me up. I'm admittedly a push over, after that incredibly shot shoot out ("No bullets over four feet. There's kid in there."), the shot of Zaf holding the gun and the phone out at the same time, and your eye goes to the phone with the kids voice coming through gets to me.

It is an interesting Juliet episode as well. She is right when she says that the consequences will be worse if they admit that that are/were wrong. Adams line: "We're spooks, Harry, not philosophers." says it all. I like Adam standing up to Harry's moral indignation. Harry can lose the plot when he is like that.

[lwhite53]

(13-07-2010 03:25 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  It is an interesting Juliet episode as well. She is right when she says that the consequences will be worse if they admit that that are/were wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this (WMD, the Iraq war and the disastrous political outcomes for a number of countries come immediately to mind). When govts. play the CYA game, bad things happen every time. They made a mistake -- admit it and move on.

[A Cousin]

(13-07-2010 05:50 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  

(13-07-2010 03:25 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  It is an interesting Juliet episode as well. She is right when she says that the consequences will be worse if they admit that that are/were wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this (WMD, the Iraq war and the disastrous political outcomes for a number of countries come immediately to mind). When govts. play the CYA game, bad things happen every time. They made a mistake -- admit it and move on.

Of course you are right in a general sense. To the WMD and the Iraq debacle I would add a myriad of other things from all over the world and across history. Of course, Governments and those serving in them should be held accountable for their mistakes and bad decisions. The fact remains that when they come clean, we don't let them simply move on. And we shouldn't. I believe that we should always be able to question our governments. But I can see how that would make it difficult to deal with a clear and present danger.

Taking this back to the case of this particular episode, I am with Adam when he says that no matter what happened in the past their job is to concentrate on the present danger. Paul Seymour, self-serving jerk that he is, does grudgingly admit that Special Branch made a "mistake" but if it were to be made public at that moment they would lose the chance to stop the current threat. Seymour's past self-serving action in arresting the wrong Malik has created their own monster, and they have to deal with both of them in what may not be best of all possible ways in the best of all possible worlds but in the most expedient way. Harry has to find another way to "punish" Seymour, and with Ruth's help, he does so very satisfactorily. And Juliet doesn't seem to fight him very hard on it.

[lwhite53]

What I've noticed about Juliet is that she somehow, miraculously (!!), always appears to have been on the side of whomever won that particular battle. She doesn't give Harry a hard time about Seymour because clearly H's won this one. All J cares about is results; loyalty is not among her assets.

[A Cousin]

(14-07-2010 05:01 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  What I've noticed about Juliet is that she somehow, miraculously (!!), always appears to have been on the side of whomever won that particular battle. She doesn't give Harry a hard time about Seymour because clearly H's won this one. All J cares about is results; loyalty is not among her assets.

By that point, his proof is water tight too. That is an extremely good point that I had not thought about. Thanks!