Series 9 Episode 7 discussion

[Beatriz]

OMG!! I've just watched and I'm out of words, WOW!!! I will write something later, that was BRILLIANT!!! Trying to breath normally...

[Silktie]

Bloody hell.

Don't forget to tune in next week, when they'll show us how Lucas, erm, I mean John, used to rip the wings off butterflies and drowned cute puppies for fun as a kid. They're really doing a hatchet job on the character, aren't they? So apparently he really is doing all this for lurve? Meh.

Personally I don't think there's gonna be a major twist, or that we're going to discover he was brainwashed or something like that. Unfortunately, I think Lucas really have done all those terrible things. The only way out for this character I can see, that will provide any redemption, is to sacrifice himself to save something of grave importance, like whatever is in the Albany file, or you know, Harry. It's just one big mess, isn't it? Oh well, at least Malcolm finally got to see the Highlands as a result, so it wasn't all for nothing.

But my own speculation is that he's going to attempt "suicide by team member." So maybe Harry'll get to shove him off the roof...

My favourite scene was the Harry/Lucas one. So much going on there, it was fantastic to watch. Poor Harry, betrayed once again by a trusted team member. And still, he lets Lucas go in the end. Why, Harry, why?! Part of me wonders whether he hoped that Lucas would disappear and save him the heartache of dealing with the situation.

Also loved the three Harry/Ruth scenes. There's so much history between these two now, it's really hard to see how they will get past all this. But when Harry told Ruth that he would not let her die and would always try to save her like he was doing with Lucas, I wanted to slap him. Don't tempt fate, Harry! You just know that's going to come back to haunt him.

I don't see Ruth's reaction in shooting that guy till he looked like a sieve as Ruth totally losing her heart and/or soul. I actually think it's a good sign that she fought so hard to survive, and yes, I think the situation brought back memories of Mani, especially since she received a reminder about her life in Cyprus a little earlier. Her reaction was, to me, all the suppressed rage about what happened coming out. Maybe, now that she literally has blood on her hands as well, she will develop a deeper understanding of what Harry copes with every day.

[agent68]

(02-11-2010 10:30 AM)KiKi Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 10:14 AM)agent68 Wrote:  

(02-11-2010 09:48 AM)KiKi Wrote:  On the other hand...I remain UTTERLY unconvinced that Lucas *did* know about the bomb, or that he did kill the real Lucas North. We know that Vaughn is a manipulator of phenomenal standards, and that he is able to lie and betray with the best of them. I still think he planted that in Lucas' mind. When he told Lucas what 'really' happened, Lucas seemed confused, as if he didn't actually remember it.

When Lucas told Vaughn he had told Harry, Vaughn asked if Lucas had told everything and Lucas reiterated 'everything'. Then Vaughn offers a different version to which I think Lucas looks alarmed as if he wasn't aware of it.

Yes - that's exactly what I mean. Lucas didn't seem to remember Vaughn's version, which is why I'm not convinced it's true. I think Lucas' original version that he told Harry may actually be the truth.

Or maybe there's another version waiting to be told.

It's all too much!

Sorry I was agreeing with you but in my haste didn't make it clear in my original post I am with you on all of the above!

[westiemom]

(02-11-2010 08:47 AM)HarriHobbit Wrote:  Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't something said in the lead up to this series that it might be something to do with genetics? Call me absolutely desperate for some reason to absolve Lucas of all his sins but is it possible he's I don't know some clone of John or something? Definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel here!

I remember that too - something about genetics
did the Chinese make "John"?

[Katja]

Well hell! I though we'd finally start to understand what's going on

Loved Ruth in this one, the dawning realization in action of the truth of what she told Harry in the first episode (everything we've seen and the folly of pretending we were still normal (paraphrased of course)).

Still not getting the Lucas business, though--either there's going to be an incredible genius plot twist or this story is just way full of holes.

Lots of what I'm not getting was touched on above. Are we really supposed to believe the evil psychokiller was just biding his time and using his awesom acting skills to seem loyal and brave? or was it redemption? a change of heart?

And if he was so bad before, what was Maya doing with such a bad egg (assuming, of course, that she has some personality at all)? and if he was looking for redemption/change of heart (dreaming of being a hero) why would he start looking to reconnect with the life he was trying to redeem himself from?

Or was he a good egg before he became a bad egg and then rebecame a good egg?



Kudos, please tell me there's something more to it. Please?

[MikeH]

Hi (from a long time lurker)

I'm enjoying the series (not as much as I'd hoped), but finding the Lucas plot increasingly silly. OK, so he's a bad guy when we've spent all this time thinking he was a good 'un, but it's not being very well done, is it?

He's never seen Maya in years - and he could surely have tracked her down if he wanted to - but she's the love of his life and worth sacrificing everything for. And he's a capable agent yet he's reduced to holding his head in his hands when Vaughan turns up.

I'll happily eat my words if the last episode is a corker, but right now it all just feels clumsy and contrived.

Mike

[klgrant]

whatever happens it will be a silly ending where we have to wait 12 months to find out what happens! just read Ian Wylies blog fo the final ep and i dont like the sound of it

[RedClover]

one thing that's nagging at me: why didn't Lucas go back to the grid after Vaughn died? If Harry believed his story he could just go back, no?

Maybe the Chinese did indeed program him.

[westiemom]

just watched for the second time
confused kind of disappointed in the storyline
don't understand maya and john
didn't lucas love elizaveta???
why does he still want albany now that vaughn is dead one would think he would want to just get away from everything

[femaleBertieWooster]

(02-11-2010 12:28 PM)Aria Wrote:  Very enjoyable episode last night with RA giving one of his best performances. His interrogation scenes with PF were outstanding and Lucas/John had me believing he had been duped by the evil Vaughan. Iain Glen was also brilliant and showed what he could do with something substantial rather than the obligatory one or two scenes per episode where he messes with Lucas's head. He had me feeling rather sorry for him by the end and his line to John, that he was a "killer, who fell asleep and dreamed he was a hero" was excellent.

That was pretty amazing.


Edit to correct Aria's typo so we can have the correct amazing quote.