How did you feel about Season 9?

[femaleBertieWooster]

subscribing to thread

[Jhokur]

(09-11-2010 09:51 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  So Lucas makes the death count of MI5 agents now at 11, with 6 old/former agents still alive and current team (Harry, Ruth, Beth, Dimitri, and Tariq) still hopping along.

Helen, Danny, Fiona, Adam, Zaf, Colin, Ben, Connie, Jo, Ros, Lucas.
Danny's, Adam's and Jo's to me stung the most. Helen & Ben were the most shocking. Colin & Lucas' definitely hollow feeling.

Tom, Zoe, Tessa, Sam, Malcolm,... who's the 6th?

80 episodes, 16/17 agents gone... someone gone every 4 episodes :|

[BravoNine]

(10-11-2010 05:48 AM)Jhokur Wrote:  

(09-11-2010 09:51 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  So Lucas makes the death count of MI5 agents now at 11, with 6 old/former agents still alive and current team (Harry, Ruth, Beth, Dimitri, and Tariq) still hopping along.

Helen, Danny, Fiona, Adam, Zaf, Colin, Ben, Connie, Jo, Ros, Lucas.
Danny's, Adam's and Jo's to me stung the most. Helen & Ben were the most shocking. Colin & Lucas' definitely hollow feeling.

Tom, Zoe, Tessa, Sam, Malcolm,... who's the 6th?

80 episodes, 16/17 agents gone... someone gone every 4 episodes :|

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by "hollow feeling"? Like you feel numb, that it's left a void in you? Or that it's bad?

The 6th was one of the earliest administrative officers named Jed Kelly, he was seen around the Grid for a few appearances in the first series and then disappeared, I believe it was said that he was transferred. I just counted him because his name was counted as a Grid officer on the casting lists. He's not really that important like the others, but I thought he should count.

Truth be told, although I was sad at many characters being killed, and sure a lot of them were shocking and very upsetting, none of them really hit me the way Lucas's did. I think it was because for the others, they dead fighting for their country, or at least they died doing the right thing. But for Lucas, they conjured up this crazy hare-brained storyline to make him go evil and then take his own life, it was just a waste, and I felt upset, distraught, and insulted. If he had died like Adam or Jo or even like Connie, I would have been okay, at least there is some purpose, but now we're just suppose to remember Lucas as the guy who went crazy and decided to jump off a building to end his misery. They've ruined his loyalty, and now they've ruined his strength and dignity too.

I could make peace with the others dying, but with Lucas, they've ruined what was the best thing about his character, his loyalty to his team. And as if that wasn't enough, had him jump off the building because he was desperate. It was a waste of what the character could have been or the brilliant exit that he deserved.

Spooks deaths were always the best and most memorable moment of the series, but this time, it just made me angry and make me wanna forget it ever happened.

[JHyde]

Back on topic please.

There were 2 genuinely good episodes in this season: 1 and 6 and 7 wasn't far off. And there was a lot I liked about 3, 4 and 5.

But for me, the finale was truly terrible and the more I think about it, the more I hate it. Perhaps if we hadn't known Ruth was to be kidnapped, the suspense quotient would have been higher. But we did know.

The finale really soured the season for me. Ultimately, it definitely ranks down in the bottom 3 seasons in my book. Mostly because the Lucas storyline was so ludicrous after we had been trained to expect of the character. All his best lines from season 7 ring hollow now. It was just silly.

[HellsBells]

I think the week to week story lines were great. But the story arc for the series wasn't.
JHyde, I'm glad you thought the Lucas storyline was ludicrous as well, I really rate your unbiased opinion. I know my own opinion is tainted by the fact I just loved Lucas and am so sad that this was his ending.

[theeyeshaveit]

(10-11-2010 07:41 AM)JHyde Wrote:  Back on topic please.

There were 2 genuinely good episodes in this season: 1 and 6 and 7 wasn't far off. And there was a lot I liked about 3, 4 and 5.

But for me, the finale was truly terrible and the more I think about it, the more I hate it. Perhaps if we hadn't known Ruth was to be kidnapped, the suspense quotient would have been higher. But we did know.

The finale really soured the season for me. Ultimately, it definitely ranks down in the bottom 3 seasons in my book. Mostly because the Lucas storyline was so ludicrous after we had been trained to expect of the character. All his best lines from season 7 ring hollow now. It was just silly.

I enjoyed reading your view as a senior member too. Even though I have watched 5 full series and parts of other series, having a terrible memory, I can lay no claims to being a Spooks expert.

I keep thinking of all the wonderful options they had to explore if they wanted to make an agent behaving badly the story of the series but which did not involve completely undermining the character and his credibility in earlier series.

Some of the things they could have used as a basis for rogue Lucas behaviour.

Lucas could have come across something that raised questions about his prison time and possibly Harry's part in it and he decided to go on his own personal investigation into it, requiring him to steal files, meet strange people and the like.
Somebody could have turned up from that past requiring or causing him to embark on rogue action. Anything would be more feasible that what we had.

How did he get into a Russian prison? Was he captured on a mission, what was the mission? Was he planted there and if so why? Why did he spend so long there before they arranged a transfer? Did anyone stuff up?
Did Connie tell the truth when she said she was to blame for Lucas being in the prison or did she just say that as a final good deed to give Lucas peace of mind about Harry? What else happened to him in prison? Was anyone else involved with him personally besides the two Russians we have seen, now both dead. Were there any lingering effects on him, has he ever been brainwashed etc etc.

How much better would it have been if Lucas went off the rails for something plausible instead of something fanciful like personality turnarounds, not once but twice supposedly.

[lwhite53]

(10-11-2010 01:31 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  How much better would it have been if Lucas went off the rails for something plausible instead of something fanciful like personality turnarounds, not once but twice supposedly.

Plausibility . . . good word for what was truly missing this series. The Lucas/John story arc ruined this series, imo, because it lacked anything approaching realism or solid psychological underpinnings -- anything that would really have made his transformation plausible. The "willing suspension of disbelief" thing only works when it's consistent and, god knows, the lack of consistency in the writing this series approached criminal.

Unfortunately, the Lucas/John arc will forever overshadow everything good about the series -- Harry and Ruth's private journeys, the new HS and his antics, the intro of Beth and Dimitri, the outstanding acting by NW, PF and RA (their best spooks work, imo). What a waste.

[HellsBells]

(10-11-2010 02:41 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Unfortunately, the Lucas/John arc will forever overshadow everything good about the series -- Harry and Ruth's private journeys, the new HS and his antics, the intro of Beth and Dimitri, the outstanding acting by NW, PF and RA (their best spooks work, imo). What a waste.

I totally agree. When I rewatched this series and completely ignore the Lucas/John arc they were some of the best episodes ever. And the outstanding acting, as you say.
I would have liked the team to work together, to get to know each other, this was after all practically a new team. Beth and Dimitri could hardly feel they lost a friend in Lucas, they had really only just meet him.

Lucas already had an uncertain past, why oh why didn't the writers use that! And now there is so much we'll never know about that past as theeyeshaveit so rightly points out.

[Onion Terror]

(10-11-2010 12:55 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I think the week to week story lines were great. But the story arc for the series wasn't.

Thank you, HellsBells. This is just how I felt, but I couldn't find a succinct way of putting it! Individually, episodes 1-6 in particular were as good as any from previous series.

[BravoNine]

(10-11-2010 04:21 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I would have liked the team to work together, to get to know each other, this was after all practically a new team. Beth and Dimitri could hardly feel they lost a friend in Lucas, they had really only just meet him.

This is why I love Episode 6, it was really the first time you see this new team coming together to solve a problem, you see them trusting each other and counting on each other to do the right thing. It just made it so much better! The Grid on lockdown was very old-school Spooks, and then you had Lucas, even despite all the John/Lucas stuff, out there being brilliant and still figuring out that the bad guys were tapping the phones. It was just all very cool!

As for Beth and Dimitri, I think they look up to him, he is sort of their mentor and team leader, and in a way, I do sense a bit of hero-worshiping in some places. They may not have been close, but Lucas was their leader and teammate, it would still stung pretty bad that the man who had been watching their backs is someone that they can't trust and a evil murderer.

In that line of business, friendship and that level of trust does grow quite fast. It's life under fire, you either stick by your people or you don't.

(10-11-2010 04:21 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Lucas already had an uncertain past, why oh why didn't the writers use that! And now there is so much we'll never know about that past as theeyeshaveit so rightly points out.

This is forever my disappointment. Lucas North as a character had so much potential and ties to various storylines, and not to mention connections that link back to the old days, if my calculations are correct, he was still working at MI5 when Tom, Zoe, Tessa, Malcolm, Colin, and Danny came onto the team, he had so much of that old school connection that we never got to see.

His mystery and uncertain past was a source of great storyline material, not to mention the 8 years in Russia and how he had gotten captured, and who really recruited him into MI5 and all that.

There were so many intriguing storylines and personal connections they could write for, but they chose one of the strangest storylines I have ever seen in my life.