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Gazelle · (This post was last modified: 11-10-2011 09:09 PM by Gazelle.)

It's been a later viewing for me this week hence my later post... really enjoyed this week's episode though, right back up there with episodes 1 and 2. The terror plot this week was credible and compelling but didn't stifle development of the main Russian plotline - it had me glued for all 58 mins! Thought that Erin's character really made headway this week, also enjoyed the interplay between Harry, Ruth, Sasha and Elena, and the meeting between Ruth and Jim Coaver.

I still think Ilya Gavrik's playing a bigger role in proceedings than it currently appears - all the comments he makes to Harry suggest he knew about Elena's affair so is this all some kind of revenge? And what about the Russians shown at the start of the first episode discussing the Gavriks' visit to the UK and looking at Harry's file - they've got to be behind things too. And I say again, has anyone looked at all that intel downloaded from Ilya Gavrik's company laptop in episode 2 yet? How come that seems to have been forgotten?!

And last but not least, Harry and Ruth finally get to talk in private away from the Grid - hoping for more conversations like this in episodes 5 and 6, these two never disappoint (even though I wish it was so much simpler for them...!)

(09-10-2011 10:53 PM)Agent Acme Wrote: Also during the meeting with Ruth on the bridge, Coaver mentioned Harry's unauthorised attempted extraction of Elena and Sacha at Treptower park in Berlin.
" I would never have done it....I hope he knows that. I don't shoot my friends, family maybe, but not my friends." Part of what Coaver said. Not altogether sure whether that was meant literally or not but I gather it was Coaver that put the kibosh on Harry's attempt to get them out. Ruth looked a little perturbed at this revelation, obviously Harry's version is different. Coaver gave Ruth a file.

It's all as clear as mud to me....have to have a re-watch I think....

Hmm, I missed Coaver giving Ruth a file - will also have to re-watch -I remember wondering if Ruth was bluffing knowledge on that episode in Berlin to draw information out of Coaver. Also, who initiated the meeting between Ruth and Coaver (did I miss something else obvious?!)

Does anyone know which park the Harry and Ruth bench scene was set - was that the Tower of London in the background? (I like to place scenes whenever possible!) And the Ruth/Coaver meeting - looked like some kind of gangway onto the Thames rather than a footbridge - between Lambeth and Vauxhall Bridge maybe? Any Londoners with a better idea?

lazyme63 · 11-10-2011, 09:46 PM

I don't know how I'm going to cope with the next two episodes!

I enjoyed the increased number of scenes with Harry and Ruth, even if it was a lot of awkward looks!

I'm think the meeting with Ruth and Coaver on the bridge was set up. She was deliberately acting awkward to extract info from him, even if she may have found out some extra stuff. Not sure how realistic the hard evidence is - my first thought was - fake plates!

I am really liking Sascha, I hope he doesn't turn out to be evil, but I hope he's not actually Harry's son too. I think Ilya or Elena are the bad ones - Ilya's not been in it hardly at all - i'm guessing he will be in it a bit more in the next two episodes. Again, the bench scene with Elena seemed set up too. Poor Harry, I think he's being played.

Very excited to see what the last two episodes have to bring us. I hope they focus more on the Russian/English storyline and not threat of the weeks. Either way, I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

beatrice4ruth · (This post was last modified: 12-10-2011 12:02 AM by beatrice4ruth.)

(11-10-2011 09:46 PM)lazyme63 Wrote: I don't know how I'm going to cope with the next two episodes!

I enjoyed the increased number of scenes with Harry and Ruth, even if it was a lot of awkward looks!

I'm think the meeting with Ruth and Coaver on the bridge was set up. She was deliberately acting awkward to extract info from him, even if she may have found out some extra stuff. Not sure how realistic the hard evidence is - my first thought was - fake plates!

I am really liking Sascha, I hope he doesn't turn out to be evil, but I hope he's not actually Harry's son too. I think Ilya or Elena are the bad ones - Ilya's not been in it hardly at all - i'm guessing he will be in it a bit more in the next two episodes. Again, the bench scene with Elena seemed set up too. Poor Harry, I think he's being played.

Very excited to see what the last two episodes have to bring us. I hope they focus more on the Russian/English storyline and not threat of the weeks. Either way, I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

I am also afraid that Harry is being played by Elena and Ilya. I am even more afraid that Harry is going to lose Ruth for the wrong reasons; to protect Sasha who might not be his son. That would be the true tragedy, losing one's soulmate for an idealized former love and a fake son.

**Silktie** · 12-10-2011, 06:10 AM

(11-10-2011 05:30 PM)A Cousin Wrote: If I was slow in the up-take in the last episode, I am now completely convinced that the writers are using the threat-of-the-week plots as a device for examining the actions, decisions and emotions of 30 years ago. To my mind - it's a brilliant device.

Yes, I love this aspect too. There are so many parallels between this threat of the week and the Russian angle, I'm not sure I noticed them all. There was Ashur vs Elena: both seeing the wrong their people are doing and betraying them because of that; and Erin willing to compromise the operation to save her child vs Harry willing to compromise the operation thirty years ago to extract Elena and save his child, etc. Great stuff.

Quote:(BTW, Silktie, what does "anvillicious" mean? )

It's Internet speak for a show dropping anvils and telegraphing something horrible about to happen: cue Erin being cosy with Rosie at the beginning of the episode, for instance. I tend to think that the threats of the week not only parallel what happened thirty years ago, but may also provide glimpses of what is about to come in the Russian storyline.

Quote: They can't possibly have time to tie JFK conspiracy theories into this story arc?!? Can they? I mean, if they do, more power to them but maybe its just another Easter Egg. It just shows how much the KGB/FSB distrust the CIA. I thought Ilya was just trying to manipulate Harry.

Hah, it would be hilarious if they manage to tie JFK's assassination into this: Harry Pearce - no mystery is too big for him to solve! Big Grin

But my guess is that it was just Harry being an obstructive, snarky whatsit towards Ilya. Similarly, Harry's comment about popping his call on speakerphone makes me laugh every time. I do enjoy it when he gets stroppy.

(11-10-2011 08:53 PM)Gazelle Wrote: I still think Ilya Gavrik's playing a bigger role in proceedings than it currently appears - all the comments he makes to Harry suggest he knew about Elena's affair so is this all some kind of revenge? And what about the Russians shown at the start of the first episode discussing the Gavriks' visit to the UK and looking at Harry's file - they've got to be behind things too. And I say again, has anyone looked at all that intel downloaded from Ilya Gavrik's company laptop in episode 2 yet? How come that seems to have been forgotten?!

I agree. There has got to be more to Ilya and the Russians. If there isn't, it will be a missed opportunity to make this even more compelling in my book.

(11-10-2011 09:46 PM)lazyme63 Wrote: I'm think the meeting with Ruth and Coaver on the bridge was set up. She was deliberately acting awkward to extract info from him, even if she may have found out some extra stuff. Not sure how realistic the hard evidence is - my first thought was - fake plates!

Interesting thought. I didn't initially think that the meeting was a set-up, merely that Ruth played it to her advantage once Coaver showed up and confronted her. But perhaps it was all part of her grand plan to get the evidence they needed. She was brilliant, a born Spook as Harry said. In some respects it makes me sad that she's now going off to play politics with the HS - hope she gets to use these spooksy talents there in some way as well.

beatrice4ruth · 12-10-2011, 10:17 AM

I really can't compare Ashur to Elena. Was Elena really telling the truth about her parents? If Elena was so distressed about her parents, why on earth did she marry a KGB intelligence officer? I really do not understand her rational. To bring down the system within and live a lie for 30 years? Sorry, I still can't trust Elena.

Harry was ready to compromise an operation to save Catherine if needed. We know that he would do it again to save Sasha. As Adam told Harry when he was ready to sacrifice the daughter of Robert Morgan, Harry would not have done the same with his own daughter (paraphrase). Adam had reproached Harry his weakness regarding the ones he loved, which we also saw with Ruth and Albany. The personal taking over Harry's usual self-control is a recurrent theme in the series.

No wonder that Ruth looked so hurt when she learnt that Harry had tried to extract Elena and save Sasha 30 years ago. She must have felt that she had sacrificed herself in vain for Harry. True, he went to jail to try to save her from Cotterdam, but he could have done so much more to find her in Cyprus without compromising her. Harry knows that he has hurt Ruth so much over the years and the "Russian family" is the last straw. It might explain why Harry wants Ruth to join the HS staff.

Let's hope that the last two episodes will bring some happiness to Harry and Ruth. I am sick and tired of the relentless misery since series 8. I can even accept that Harry choses Elena and Sasha over Ruth. She will then be forced to move on with her life and perhaps find the happiness she deserves.

harrbd · 12-10-2011, 10:21 AM

I assume that Harry asked Ilya about JFK as a test because perhaps he believes that the KGB / FSB was behind the killing ? Witt had the Lee Harvey Oswald document on his desk - can anyone remember if it was still there when Harry went to his house ?

**Silktie** · (This post was last modified: 12-10-2011 01:24 PM by Silktie.)

(12-10-2011 10:17 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: No wonder that Ruth looked so hurt when she learnt that Harry had tried to extract Elena and save Sasha 30 years ago. She must have felt that she had sacrificed herself in vain for Harry. True, he went to jail to try to save her from Cotterdam, but he could have done so much more to find her in Cyprus without compromising her. Harry knows that he has hurt Ruth so much over the years and the "Russian family" is the last straw. It might explain why Harry wants Ruth to join the HS staff.

What do you mean by this? How does what Harry tried to do thirty years ago invalidate everything that's happened between Harry and Ruth since? How does it make her sacrifice in vain? And would he not have endangered Ruth by trying to find her? And would she have wanted to be found - since she was happy in her 'simple and elegant' life?

When you say Harry has hurt Ruth so much over the years - are you referring to her going into exile (her choice); or the loss of that life and the death of George, which Harry was powerless to stop? These things happened because they do the job they do, and not because of any negligence on Harry's part.

I can fully understand Ruth's hurt over him not wanting to talk to her about Elena and Sasha, and her fears that their reappearance may have rekindled old feelings. But let's not be blind to the fact that there are always two sides to everything, and that in all honesty Ruth has never truly allowed Harry in, which somewhat limited his chances to share all his deepest secrets with her.

I have never got the impression that Harry and Ruth blame each other for what happened with Cotterdam, and Ruth realises the events surrounding her return is not Harry's fault. So why do fans keep on harping about these things? If Ruth really felt so strongly about these things, she never would have returned to work on the Grid with the man who's caused her so much hurt?

WhatToChoose · 12-10-2011, 01:52 PM

Can someone please clear up how Ashur was killed - I thought he was killed off via CO19 sniper. However others at work claim he has tazered/injected...just because there was no blood

**A Cousin** · (This post was last modified: 12-10-2011 02:04 PM by A Cousin.)

(12-10-2011 06:10 AM)Silktie Wrote:
(11-10-2011 05:30 PM)A Cousin Wrote: If I was slow in the up-take in the last episode, I am now completely convinced that the writers are using the threat-of-the-week plots as a device for examining the actions, decisions and emotions of 30 years ago. To my mind - it's a brilliant device.

Yes, I love this aspect too. There are so many parallels between this threat of the week and the Russian angle, I'm not sure I noticed them all. ....great stuff.

I was kind of over-whelmed with the parallels as well. And if I may wax pedantic for a moment (Are we surprised? I think not! Silba

) and I am sure provide a good belly-laugh for KUDOs (I can hear them now, "Our fans are bonkers!" Tongue

), the threat-of-the-week is fulfilling the same function as a Greek Chorus. Both provide background and summary info for the audience, express the main characters' emotions, and provide insight for the main characters. So I think it quite possible that the threats-of-the-week are projecting further plot as well. Even if it is completely unintentional on the part of TPTB, IMO, it is a brilliant device that I am enjoying immensely. It is also why I am not at all concerned about any plot-holes.

(12-10-2011 01:52 PM)WhatToChoose Wrote: Can someone please clear up how Ashur was killed - I thought he was killed off via CO19 sniper. However others at work claim he has tazered/injected...just because there was no blood

I thought he was taken down by CO19 with one shot right through the forehead at which point two officers caught him before he hit the ground and dragged his body off.

(11-10-2011 09:46 PM)lazyme63 Wrote: I am really liking Sascha, I hope he doesn't turn out to be evil, but I hope he's not actually Harry's son too. I think Ilya or Elena are the bad ones - Ilya's not been in it hardly at all - i'm guessing he will be in it a bit more in the next two episodes. Again, the bench scene with Elena seemed set up too. Poor Harry, I think he's being played.

Yeah, I am with you on that one. I am trying to not speculate because it just confuses me hopelessly, but I am still waiting for the penny to drop on Ilya as well. What does he know? Or not know? How does he factors into the big picture? What is he going to do? And why?

As for Sasha, at this point, he is still an innocent in my mind. He's caught up in his parents' (all of them Tongue

) bad decisions. He fulfills a more symbolic role. He is the living personification of those decisions. Once again, not speculating, just going with the facts as we know them by the end of 10.4.