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**JHyde** · 14-12-2009, 04:06 PM

Given how difficult his work has always been, and the wreckage of his personal relationships, it's easier to understand why the trouble isn't worth it, more often than not. Relationships are harder work than people like to admit. And with everything that's happened with Ruth.....

Hopefully, he can just jump when the right opportunity comes. Although there's been so many missed chances already, one wonders how many these guys have left.

lwhite53 · 14-12-2009, 04:08 PM

(14-12-2009 03:39 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: I obviously have not read the diary yet but would it be fair to say that Harry has NEVER had a loving, honest relationship? The sort he would have with Ruth. He certainly wasnt honest with his wife and could not have really loved her if he had a long standing affair. Juliet was just lust I assume. Ruth is something he has never experienced and maybe the reason why he is looking so scared. He doesnt know what to do. He doesnt know how to be himself with her. The real Harry. Just some thoughts.

I think his relationship with his wife was honest (aside from not telling her what he did until after they were married), at least at that point in his life. He's changed tremendously over his career, as his attraction to Ruth demonstrates. I don't think he would have given R a second look in his youth -- she wouldn't have been flash enough, sexy enough, or thrilling enough for the younger Harry.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 14-12-2009 04:12 PM by JHyde.)

Or confident enough. I think that was a big drawcard for Juliet.

But they're a good fit now. It's just their bloody timing. And a dead husband.

lwhite53 · 14-12-2009, 04:11 PM

(14-12-2009 04:06 PM)JHyde Wrote: Given how difficult his work has always been, and the wreckage of his personal relationships, it's easier to understand why the trouble isn't worth it, more often than not. Relationships are harder work than people like to admit. And with everything that's happened with Ruth.....

Hopefully, he can just jump when the right opportunity comes. Although there's been so many missed chances already, one wonders how many these guys have left.

The "readiness is all" vs the "ripeness is all" discussion -- one on my all-time Shakespearean favorites.

Tea Lady · 14-12-2009, 04:14 PM

(14-12-2009 04:08 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:
(14-12-2009 03:39 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: I obviously have not read the diary yet but would it be fair to say that Harry has NEVER had a loving, honest relationship? The sort he would have with Ruth. He certainly wasnt honest with his wife and could not have really loved her if he had a long standing affair. Juliet was just lust I assume. Ruth is something he has never experienced and maybe the reason why he is looking so scared. He doesnt know what to do. He doesnt know how to be himself with her. The real Harry. Just some thoughts.

I think his relationship with his wife was honest (aside from not telling her what he did until after they were married), at least at that point in his life. He's changed tremendously over his career, as his attraction to Ruth demonstrates. I don't think he would have given R a second look in his youth -- she wouldn't have been flash enough, sexy enough, or thrilling enough for the younger Harry.

When I said honest I think I meant that Harry surely could not have talked about his work with his wife? He would have come home after a really really bad day and had to pretend that nothing happened. With Ruth he could now share most of the bad things that happen. His job is one of the most important things to Harry and to have his partner able to share in that, would make the relationship honest. I Hope that makes sense.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 14-12-2009 04:18 PM by JHyde.)

I think so. Carmen Joyce put it nicely when she said it can be very intimate, and it was certainly something Adam and Fiona knew. And when work is the most important thing in your life, it really makes sense to work with someone you love.

Of course, I'm not sure I'd advocate this in the real world.

**Silktie** · 14-12-2009, 04:18 PM

Yes it does, and I agree. I can't see Harry making it work with anyone outside the Security Services, frankly. And it would have to be someone that shares his sense of duty, which Ruth seems to be getting back in the last few episodes.

lwhite53 · (This post was last modified: 14-12-2009 04:23 PM by lwhite53.)

Yes, I misunderstood you earlier Tea Lady. I think you're absolutely right -- part of the problem that Harry and Jane had was his inability to talk with her about his work (he addresses this issue in the diary). This doomed the relationship, I think -- if you can't share, what else do you have?

(14-12-2009 04:17 PM)JHyde Wrote: Of course, I'm not sure I'd advocate this in the real world.

Happens a lot in certain lines of work -- police officers, for instance. Lawyers, too. And, doctors.

**JHyde** · 14-12-2009, 04:25 PM

The ability to talk shop with a partner is terrific.

It's just that dating your boss can be a very scary enterprise.

lwhite53 · 14-12-2009, 04:27 PM

Agreed.