Episode 8 Discussion [rewatch]

[Nitrus]

I liked this episode, particularly because it rings true today with British troops being woefully under-equipped to to a very difficult job.

Aside from that this episode was the first time we really saw Tom starting to crack. He loathed his mission and didn't understand why he was tasked with spying on someone he thought was a hero. Some of which I partly understand.

I'm sure MM fans were pleased to see him in a uniform lol.

I thought the notion of a small company of soldiers capturing some nuclear waste was a bit far-fetched though, and they could have done something much better with the backstory.

What did you think?

[fanofChristine]

I agree. The threat was quite strange to me. Also, how could they have trusted the source so much? He didn't look trustworthy at all! will post again after actually re-watching

[Tea Lady]

Hmmm, not sure I like this episode much. I liked watching what was going on, on the Grid, but the storyline to me was a little naff. I dont buy the MOD using MI5 to do their dirty work to kill off a thorn in their side. That thorn being a decorated soldier. I am sure the MOD could have found another way to get rid of Curtis from the army without setting him up and getting him killed. I also dont quite believe that Harry would have accepted the situation so easily. Tom was the conscience in this episode, there was no one else to play that role. Harry seemed to just want to the wrap the operation up like it was an annoyance. I guess maybe he just passed on the kill order so didnt have to worry about it too much.

The bits I did liked:
-"£6.57 actually" quote from Malcolm. Tee hee.
-Danny organising the birthday party with Sam.
-Ruth raising her voice against Harry. Poor Harry he did look a bit out of sorts when confronted with a slightly emotional woman, who perhaps he was starting to have feelings for by then. All of a suden his shirt collar seemed a little too tight!
-Sam and Danny getting together.
-Tom swearing at Harry. Steady on boys!

Final thought, why was Christine at Harry's birthday party? I hope she contributed her £6.57 to the pot !!

This is probably one of those episodes I would not sit down and watch again, unless instructed to do so as part of SF homework.

[JHyde]

My favourite thought while watching this episode was thinking that 6.57 quid an officer adding up to 125 means roughly 19 or 20 officers.

Series season 8 Spoiler: show

To get that with the team as it existed at the end of season 8, they'd be putting in more than 31 quid each!

[YourFutureMuse]

This wasn't a stand-out episode for me either, although I absolutely adored the scene with Harry and Tom at the end. Great acting from them both, cracks really starting to form for Tom. Sam and Danny were cute as well.

I didn't like the story line and do think it was far-fetched (even by spooks standards lol) But I liked the twist in that it looked like he was innocent.

Zoe was great leading the operation (I liked how she gave Ruth her chance to shine) and Tom at attempting to talk down (soldier man whose name escapes me) at the end... I think he could have done like he said without him being shot. I liked how he invoked the picture on his wall and being remembered for the wrong reasons.

Overall though I think this is the weakest ep in s2.

[Silktie]

I actually quite liked this episode, as it addresses an extremely thorny issue. How do you get your grievances taken seriously when you're not allowed to strike? It is unlawful in most countries for the Security Forces to strike, and that would include the army and MI5. Unfortunately Major Curtis, in the end, got so caught up in his own legend that he believed he had the right to take any action. Somehow it became less about the genuine grievances and more about Curtis establishing himself as the hero. I might actually have cheered when he strutted around claiming that no soldier in England would dare take a shot at him, only to be shot promptly. His arrogance was his downfall.

While the snitch may have been a set-up, Curtis handed himself gift-wrapped to his superiors by his stupid actions. Tom may have believed he could have talked him down, but Harry could not take that chance as there was an awful lot on the line. Let's not forget we were dealing with nuclear waste here, and Harry was correct that the guy seemed to be losing it. He could not gamble on Tom's persuasion skills here.

I also think Tom fell for Curtis' charms awfully easily, and was blinded by his intense dislike for the snitch. He should not have been so quick to judge that just because the snitch was a weasel, he did not have some grain of truth in his accusations against Curtis.

Loved Ruth giving Harry an earful, he clearly was not expecting her to make her case so forcefully. Danny and Sam was hilarious organising the secret party, but I would bet a good bottle of 25 year old malt that Harry knew about it anyway. And Harry actually wearing the 'I'm the Boss' pin makes me laugh every time.

I'm with Tea Lady on wondering what the hell Christine was doing at the party - she's a member of another country's service, for pity's sake! She should not have the run of the grid like this. Loved the show-down between Tom and Harry, neither of them handle confrontation well, do they? I'm definitely with Harry on Tom and Christine dating being unacceptable. But he should perhaps not have brought it up in the midst of a huge row.

[Tea Lady]

(07-03-2010 03:30 PM)JHyde Wrote:  My favourite thought while watching this episode was thinking that 6.57 quid an officer adding up to 125 means roughly 19 or 20 officers.

Series season 8 Spoiler: show

To get that with the team as it existed at the end of season 8, they'd be putting in more than 31 quid each!

It's a bit tight isnt it really. It's like when you send a collection around at work and someone puts in 1p and 2p coins ! You never end up with a whole amount.

---

(07-03-2010 04:23 PM)Silktie Wrote:  I actually quite liked this episode, as it addresses an extremely thorny issue. How do you get your grievances taken seriously when you're not allowed to strike? It is unlawful in most countries for the Security Forces to strike, and that would include the army and MI5.

I couldnt see the writing on Harry's badge, thats quite funny!

I see what you are saying about striking but I kind of take the view that if you join the army (particularly in the UK) or the security services, you know you can not strike. You know it is a disciplined service. You know the equipment is sometimes second rate. You know all this but you still join. Then can you really turn round after and complain when surely your eyes were always open? I guess that's why I found the storyline unbelievable. Curtis was happy to sell his story and make blood money from his book, selling out his comrades. I guess he didnt have an issue with moral's and ethics then.

[Silktie]

I agree with you that the people that serve in these forces know what they're in for. But the fact that they have no way of forcing changes to their circumstances make it essential for legitimate alternative channels to be set up for these grievances to be aired, otherwise you are going to get people like Major Curtis who will take things too far.

I also thought it was extremely idealistic of Tom to say to Harry that the UK Armed Forces would never strike. You don't need them to strike for the damage to be huge, all you need is low morale and a sense that they are not being appreciated for trouble to start. Ask any number of former African Presidents...

[lwhite53]

I'm going to agree with Tea Lady here -- not my favorite ep, by far. The story was not believable (the MOD setting up one of it's decorated officers for assassination) and Curtis's over-the-top egotism muddied the equipment and force readiness issues he presented. Maybe my problem is that the writer tried to get too many issues into the ep and they worked against each other. I just didn't find this ep terribly effective.

I did like Curtis's "War is shit!" line, Ruth's standing up for herself re a possible return to GCHQ, Danny and Sam, and the planning for H's birthday party (an op in itself).

The best part of this ep, imo, is how it showed the cracks starting to develop between Harry and Tom. Tom is clearly angry that MI5 was used for political reasons but it's his disappointment in Harry that really gets the angry exchange at the end going:
T: "Shame on you, Harry. Shame on you for allowing us to be manipulated."
And Harry, clearly stung by Tom's accusation, fires back:
H: "And as regards Mata Hari out there, no fraternizing with foreign operatives, even if they are friendlies . . . Never question my decisions. End it."
I found it really interesting that Harry didn't question or contest Tom's accusation but instead hit back with something personal, what most would consider a "cheap shot." And the reason H did so, imo, was because he knew T was right (about the service being used) and he was angry that T called him on it.

(No commentary for 2.8)

[Beatriz]

I agree with lwhite53 regarding Tom and Harry discussion. This was one of my favorite parts of the episode. Tom is find it more and more difficult to take or comply with his or other's decissions...

This episodes is one of my least favourites. The thing that made me laugh was that one of the code names used was Nightingale