Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]

[Nitrus]

Watch and Discuss!

Btw, I promise to catch-up with you guys once I'm back at uni where my DVDs are.

[Aria]

I liked this episode as it showed a new side of Harry. Usually he is so calm and collected and urging others not to get emotionally involved, so it was nice to see the opposite of that. The actress who played his daughter was good and I liked the interaction with her and Danny. It was poignant to see the late Corin Redgrave in his role as evil baddie, loved his confrontation with Adam where he calls him a middle ranking spook. lol
Loved Harry's lines to Ruth- "Something else! That's your bloody middle name!", and "get the electrodes out, Ruth, we'll soon have it out of her".

[Silktie]

I love this episode as it addresses an interesting subject and at the same time shows us a lot about Harry. I thought they did well in handling a very divisive subject quite even-handedly, and without picking sides.

It also shows another side of Adam, namely that he is not afraid to stand up to Harry when he thinks Harry is wrong. It takes a brave man to tell Harry that maybe he doesn't really know his daughter. Also liked the fact that Adam stands up for Ruth when Harry yells at her.

I loved the scenes between Harry and Danny. Poor Danny gets dealt a losing hand right from the start and gets caught between Harry and Catherine as they play out their version of unhappy families. It does make for some very funny scenes, especially the one where Harry tells Danny to talk to Catherine and wear a wire, and the one where Danny is gushing about Catherine's abilities - the look he gets from Harry is priceless as Harry realises Danny has a bit of a crush on his daughter.

So according to Harry, Catherine is "moody, argumentative and hates to be told she's wrong." Gee, I wonder who she takes after, hey Harry?

This is the first episode where we see Harry totally flustered and losing the plot. Even when his career was on the line in 2.7 he still put the operation first, but here, as soon as Catherine becomes involved he no longer makes decisions based on the needs of the operation, but is only focussing on keeping his daughter safe. So the man is human, after all!

Also enjoyed Ruth's empathy towards Harry, which comes through in the looks she gives him when he loses the plot, and also in the way she understands why he is yelling at her in the "something else" scene. She is so relieved when it turns out Catherine is not the agent as well, which was a nice touch.

[Tea Lady]

Going against the grain slightly, I am not a big fan of this episode. That may seem strange considering the amount of Harry moments we get but I really didn't like Catherine. I think she came across as young for her age and naive by getting herself involved with middle eastern politics, playing the sides off against each other, just to get a film made. Just stupid if you ask me. Also telling Ashworth who her father was.

Incrediably sad that all Harry had of his daughter was a few papers from her childhood and he appeared to keep those in his office. Does that mean he has nothing in his home to remind him of his children?

I thought Danny's actions were stupid and I have to say a touch unbelievable for me. Considering Danny has messed up big time in the recent past, why on earth would you sleep with Harry's daughter, and risk him either killing you or sending you off to staff training permanently? It just didn't ring true to me.

There were only three scenes I really loved in this episode. The first was when Adam approached Ruth and Danny after Harry shouted at him on the Grid. Ruth was still looking beyond, at Harry, when Adam was trying to talk to her. The second scene was when Harry said "I'm her background" in the meeting room. Harry looked quite human then, showing his emotions for a change, that he can love. The third scene was when that ungrateful daughter drove away in her car to the airport at the end. See ya. Don't come back.

Oh, loved Fiona.

[Adam Carter]

One of my favorites from Series 3. I love the twist with Catherine, allowing us to see a completely new side of Harry. It's our first real glimpse into his private life.

I thought Danny's relationship with Catherine was handled superbly, and it worked well as a character turn for Danny. After going through everything he'd gone through with Zoe and Will, he needed someone like Catherine in his life. A shame it didn't end all that well. It really highlighted the trappings of being a spy, namely falling for your target.

This was a tremendous episode for Adam, though, as it really showcased all of the traits that would come to define his character. Namely being his risk-taking nature and his ability to think outside the lines. Also, his defiance of Harry in the name of the mission said so much about how dedicated he was to the service.

Fiona's introduction is also handled well. She comes off very enigmatic in this episode, someone we want to know more about. I loved Zoe's digs at Adam while they were watching Fiona tempt Swift.

[lwhite53]

I've been thinking there's a distinct "Harry arc" in series 3 and this ep falls right in with that supposition. Harry in s2 was such a strange character, like they needed to keep trying out different personalities and different ways he could/should fit into the show. In s3 (thus far), it's almost as if the decision was made that Harry would become the core of the group and he's moved from the periphery to center stage. He's become a much stronger, more fleshed-out character and his background and beliefs, which you got hints of previously, now seem to have coalesced into a fully-formed, realistic personality. This ep moves that "character maturation" process along in that we finally learn something about H's personal life.

This isn't the strongest ep in the spooks canon, but it does unearth some of the characters' background stories and we do learn a great deal about their personal and emotional lives. From Harry's, "Always best to keep personal felings out of these matters" (right before he tells Danny to spy on his daughter) to Catherine's, "My dad's dead . . . or he might as well be anyway," to Adam's, "I have an idea but it requires a woman who's ruthless, immoral, vicious and utterly lacking in human sympathy . . . my wife," we get more intimate character knowledge in 55 minutes that we have in the 2 1/2 series that went before.

Most of the memorable scenes in this ep are also those that focus on the personal: Harry looking at childhood pics of Catherine, Will asking Zoe to marry him, Adam and Fiona's kiss after they set up Swift, Danny discovering Will has a key to the flat, Ashworth and his boyfriend in the campaign office at the end, Harry and Catherine's meeting in the park, Harry in his office in the last shot. The ep is so unspooks-like, such an anomoly, that it's hard to reconcile how it fits in, but somehow it does.

Loved Corin Redgrave as David Swift, even more so because Swift's politics were absolutely antithetical to Redgrave's -- an amazing job of acting your enemy!

Also loved Harry's, "Something else . . . that's your bloody middle name." And Ruth's taking the brunt of H's temper in stride.

Found the last scene, Harry alone in his office reciting the end of the poem, wholly anticlimactic. IMO, ep should have ended with Catherine driving away -- everything that needed to be said, vocally, visually and symbolically, had been by then.

[JHyde]

(18-04-2010 08:58 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  I've been thinking there's a distinct "Harry arc" in series 3 and this ep falls right in with that supposition.


Most of the memorable scenes in this ep are also those that focus on the personal: Harry looking at childhood pics of Catherine, Will asking Zoe to marry him, Adam and Fiona's kiss after they set up Swift, Danny discovering Will has a key to the flat, Ashworth and his boyfriend in the campaign office at the end, Harry and Catherine's meeting in the park, Harry in his office in the last shot. The ep is so unspooks-like, such an anomoly, that it's hard to reconcile how it fits in, but somehow it does.


Found the last scene, Harry alone in his office reciting the end of the poem, wholly anticlimactic. IMO, ep should have ended with Catherine driving away -- everything that needed to be said, vocally, visually and symbolically, had been by then.

Absolutely agree on all these points. The first one is something I've said too (can't remember if it was on here) and the same is true of season 5 Harry as well - but we'll get to him later.

You know, I'd forgotten the episode doesn't actually end with her driving off. Maybe that's because so many episodes end with Harry watching someone leave - and it works bloody brilliantly, more often than not.

I love the broader plot of this episode and love the Ruth bits (I'm writing this episode for the entry in a week or two) but I do, sadly, have mixed feelings about the episode for two reasons Tea Lady covered. The first is Catherine. She gives me the irrits a bit too. Also, I didn't completely buy the Danny storyline either for much the same reasons and kind of let it go in my head because hey, he was disappointed about Zoe. Bloody kids in their damn twenties.

[Jhokur]

I always wondered where Adam got all the text messages on the Nokia to get past the guard - Malcolm? o.O
Favorite part: "I'm an unconventional spook." Indeed Adam is

Also didn't like the start of Fiona.. something about her was smug I suppose.

[HellsBells]

My favourite part was Adam standing up to Harry, not many people do that ! Catherine just seemed a bit irritating to me.
I find Fiona quite annoying but I am not quite sure why. Perhaps it's her relationship with Adam seems too intense, as though they have only just meet.
Loved the marriage proposal between Zoe and Will, probably one of the most believable proposal I seen on TV !

[Tea Lady]

(19-04-2010 03:22 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I find Fiona quite annoying but I am not quite sure why. Perhaps it's her relationship with Adam seems too intense, as though they have only just meet.

I quite liked Fiona's introduction. She is obviously very skilled at what she does and seems to enjoy it. Not many women would like a creepy middle aged bloke putting his hands on them. I do agree though that her relationship with Adam is a bit up there in la-la-land. Because of their jobs, they must hardly see each other, be knackered when they do, and they must have already been together as a couple for a number of years. Yes I am sure in la-la-land you wouldnt be able to keep your hands off each other !!