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CONDOR · 25-04-2010, 04:53 PM

I think that we all accept that "State sponsored " assassination goes on in every country of the world, so why should Britain be different.
I think Adam Carter's (not the MI5 agent, but contributor on here) comment regarding the fact that he had problems with Danny & Zoe not being able to bring themselves to kill the guy, actually means that he missed the point of the episode. I believe that the writers set out to show that no matter how professional you are there is a BIG difference between killing somebody in the "line of duty", and actually taking the life of a stranger in the way that they were expected to. I think that it would probably have been a little easier if they were ordered to shoot the guy as they would be more "detached". Here they were being asked to inject a sleeping man with a substance (insulin) that would end his life. The problem would have been that Danny would know that as he was pushing the needle into the guys vein, and then as he pushed on the plunger, he was directly ending the life of a human being. I do not believe that any amount of training can prepare a normal person to do that, I also feel that the producers must have interviewed real agents who have been in that position, as the description that Adam gave to Danny over the phone of what he would feel afterwards was remarkably detailed and sounded very true to life.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 25-04-2010 05:11 PM by JHyde.)

I don't agree that Danny and Zoe getting nervous about the whole thing rings false. It IS a very different thing to kill someone clinically and coldly in the absence of self defence or in the context of a war or skirmish.

I love Adam's reasoning that if you can even comtemplate doing it, then you're probably capable of it.

Tea Lady · 25-04-2010, 09:29 PM

I don't mind this episode but I would never choose to watch it as I find it very depressing and I also have to physically look away from the screen when Ruth is in the restaurant with John. It's a brilliant scene don't get me wrong, but I feel so sorry and sad for Ruth I find it painful to watch.

I felt Zoe was too gushing about Will in this episode and I can see how it may get on the nerves of friends and colleagues who perhaps are not having the best time of it. Also, would you run around your shared flat half naked with your boyfriend making food? I wonder whether she was trying to show off slightly at finally finding the "one." Danny got his revenge in the end though and I think there was part of him that enjoyed telling Zoe about Will.

Zoe was quite week during this episode and I don't think she would have carried out the killing even if she wasn't sea sick. I'm not saying it was an easy thing to do but lives were at stake here, if she didn't act.

I loved Ruth in that dress and Malcolm was so sweet to her. I didn't know though that John was NW's real life husband JHyde.

I agree with lwhite53 that Harry was acting most strange in this episode. He did snap at Ruth which he never does and when he was talking to Sam on the roof he was trying to make it seem like he wasn't too bothered and that the situation was quite amusing. He smiled just a bit too much which obviously, knowing Harry who never smiles, must mean the complete opposite.

Aria · 25-04-2010, 09:50 PM

I thought this episode was a thought-provoking one. Not one that I would choose to watch if I had the choice. Danny and Zoe's dilemma is handled well and Adam is really coming across as a leader in talking Danny through the killing.
You knew there would be a sting in the tale when you saw Zoe and Will so happy!! Spooks doesn't do happy relationships!!
I loved Malcolm really getting into helping Ruth: smuggling files to her at home, persuading her to go to the concert and pretending to be her brother "Giles". Sam's behavior, for a supposed friend, was pretty duplicitous. But having been taken in herself (Tessa) maybe she wants to protect Ruth and that's why she agrees to spy for Harry?
As for Harry, his behaviour is strange in this episode. He seems to be trying too hard in the scenes with Sam to show that the situation isn't bothering him. Like lwhite53 says, lots of Harry subtext.
I loved the bit towards the end, when Ruth is at her desk and Malcolm and Sam are being supportive by bringing her tea and files- Ruth does have friends and people who care about her.

lwhite53 · 26-04-2010, 03:22 AM

(25-04-2010 09:50 PM)Aria Wrote: Sam's behavior, for a supposed friend, was pretty duplicitous. But having been taken in herself (Tessa) maybe she wants to protect Ruth and that's why she agrees to spy for Harry?

Yes, Sam's behavior is a puzzlement for me in this ep. It's been set up previously that she wants to do more "spook" work and less tea serving, but spying on a friend is really low, especially given that it's Ruth and she's really not doing anything that's so awfully terrible. It's not like she's selling state secrets or threatening the security of the country. She could have told Ruth that Harry was suspicious of her and to knock it off -- that's what a real friend would have done, imo.

**Silktie** · (This post was last modified: 26-04-2010 08:25 AM by Silktie.)

(25-04-2010 05:11 PM)JHyde Wrote: I don't agree that Danny and Zoe getting nervous about the whole thing rings false. It IS a very different thing to kill someone clinically and coldly in the absence of self defence or in the context of a war or skirmish.

I love Adam's reasoning that if you can even comtemplate doing it, then you're probably capable of it.

I don't have a problem about them being nervous about actually carrying out the assassination perse, it's more about Zoe's initial reaction when she said they were nowhere near their rights to kill him. The guy was a clear and present danger, and I thought that reaction from an experienced spy bordered on naive.

**JHyde** · 26-04-2010, 10:13 AM

Oh OK. Yeah, no that's fair enough.

YourFutureMuse · 26-04-2010, 10:47 AM

I do agree that Zoe seemed a little weak but I think that was infitting with her character - Zoe has always been the moral sympathetic one on the team so it's not surprising she finds killing someone in cold blood not right. I think also the reason she was so indignant was Harry and Adam hadn't mentioned it from the outset it was a possibilty, so she may have felt deceived.

Although I was thinkingboth Z and D seemed inproffesional on this mission. An example is in public on the boat and Danny walks up to Zoe calling out her real name really loudly instead of her legend. Surely someone could have overheard and picked up on it. Perhaps I'm just paranoid Tongue

CONDOR · 26-04-2010, 11:25 AM

No YFM I noticed that too and thought perhaps it was a "filming" error.
I agree that it would have made the whole issue of killing somebody in cold blood harder, if as they believed, they were only their to talk to the target. The fact that suddenly the objective was changed, and they had to do this blindly on the say so of somebody on the telephone , without any means of verifying the need for "termination" or working through options. makes Zoe's reaction quite understandable.

Tea Lady · 26-04-2010, 11:29 AM

(26-04-2010 03:22 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:
(25-04-2010 09:50 PM)Aria Wrote: Sam's behavior, for a supposed friend, was pretty duplicitous. But having been taken in herself (Tessa) maybe she wants to protect Ruth and that's why she agrees to spy for Harry?

Yes, Sam's behavior is a puzzlement for me in this ep. It's been set up previously that she wants to do more "spook" work and less tea serving, but spying on a friend is really low, especially given that it's Ruth and she's really not doing anything that's so awfully terrible. It's not like she's selling state secrets or threatening the security of the country. She could have told Ruth that Harry was suspicious of her and to knock it off -- that's what a real friend would have done, imo.

I agree. In past episodes Sam and Ruth have been quite close, chatting etc. Even though Sam is not the brightest of the bunch, she would have known that Ruth was not really doing anything seriously wrong. Why therefore did Harry keep Sam spying on her then? It was Malcolm that got the file out of registry for Ruth which was surely a breach of some rules. Harry could have warned Ruth before she went to the sing along but seemed happy to let Ruth continue on her little adventure. Maybe he was confident that it wouldn't come to anything.