But isn't the thing that changes the grid for ever after going to happen in 9.7, and the fall/toss in 9.8? So by the time one of them takes the dive from that roof, the big bang, so to speak, will already have happened?

(23-10-2010 03:22 AM)A Cousin Wrote:  Deftly leaping back into the fray, catching sponge in one hand and a bottle in the other, and clearing them both off in one swallow...

I hear you. I don't want her to be. But there could be scenarios, such as the one you listed above, that could work. It just seems to me that the writers have worked so hard to strengthen her character this series that to have her cowering while her Knight in Shining Armour saves her, seems a bit out of character. Lucas could certainly over power her physically but that doesn't mean she wouldn't have something to say about it. She'd be *involved.*

So lets say that Lucas' hand is forced into kidnapping Ruth to manipulate Harry and Ruth does everything she can to convince Harry that he has to sacrifice her for the greater good. Harry has a gun pointed at Lucas, Lucas has a gun pointed at Ruth and Ruth has the only weapon at her disposal, her intellect, pointed at Harry. Stand off.

As we have moved through this series, it has become clear to me that a major theme is living with the choices they make for the greater good and maintaining their individual humanity primarily played out by Harry, Ruth and Lucas. I am hoping in the final moment they all hit the balance and find a way to have both. Without Harry's decency, Ruth's honesty or Lucas' loyalty being sacrificed. How? I don't know. But I live in optimism.

Maybe Lucas does the decent thing in the end and throws himself off the building. What I mean by that is, he doesn't leave Harry with the guilt of having to take another life and Harry doesn't have to make that choice between Lucas or Ruth, which would destroy his relationship with Ruth for ever. Also Lucas would not want to spend another minute in a prison. This could be the way Lucas redeems himself and finally finds peace.

*ducks to avoid JD bottles being thrown at her head*

**puts on crash helmet and body armour**
It is looking as though Lucas does not carry on to the next series, judging by the hints about where the story is going and his filming commitments for next year. Therefore I would agree that the showdown at the end is going to involve Harry, Ruth and Lucas.

I just can't see Spooks continuing without Harry. It would be like Ashes to Ashes killing off Gene Hunt, it just is not going to happen. Also I am sure that the final series of Spooks would keep the Harry and Ruth thing going somehow. Like with A2A, although the main theme is action, there has for a long time been the understory of H&R. People like that, it means that there is something in it for all members of the family.

Being a true fan of both Harry and Ruth I would prefer to sacrifice Lucas (gulp! sorry guys) and I don't think the fall of Lucas is unfeasible. He has been gullible when it comes to relationships all the way through his time in the show, especially with women. I think he truly wanted to stay loyal to MI-5, but obviously Vaughn has a hold on him that we just don't know about yet. I don't think he is a traitor, I just think he's got something in his past that won't go away, and it's brought out a violent streak.

(23-10-2010 10:48 AM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Maybe Lucas does the decent thing in the end and throws himself off the building. What I mean by that is, he doesn't leave Harry with the guilt of having to take another life and Harry doesn't have to make that choice between Lucas or Ruth, which would destroy his relationship with Ruth for ever. Also Lucas would not want to spend another minute in a prison. This could be the way Lucas redeems himself and finally finds peace.

*ducks to avoid JD bottles being thrown at her head*

For me that would be the worst possible ending, because Lucas throwing himself off that building would be such a disgraceful, terrible, cowardly way to go - I'm absolutely horrified by the thought of it! But as the writers are about to completely destroy his character anyway by trying to tell us that all we had learnt about Lucas in the last two series was just a lie, I'm afraid it's not totally unlikely.

Lucas has betrayed his team by stealing that file, setting up that other agent, and whatever it was he's done with Vaughan in his past. He's digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself, and obviously Vaughan's demands will become more extreme.

I also think Lucas's only out at the end may be to take his own life, rather than cause the deaths of others and face imprisonment again (and interrogation). Do I like it - NO! But the torture and the years in prison would have to unhinge even the bravest and most loyal agent. Sacrificing one's self to save others is not cowardice, in my opinion. Others will disagree, of course.

And let's remember it's fiction, and it's a blast to enjoy a show as much as this with others.

(23-10-2010 10:10 AM)Annie Wrote:  But isn't the thing that changes the grid for ever after going to happen in 9.7, and the fall/toss in 9.8? So by the time one of them takes the dive from that roof, the big bang, so to speak, will already have happened?

i didn't realise that - it certainly is a more puzzling prospect.

I don't think we should assume Lucas is leaving because of RA's other work. I don't know when Spooks 9 finished production, but I am pretty sure Peter Jackson was not in The Hobbit picture then and I don't think TH was even a goer at that time.

Even if RA was wanting to exit, I would have thought the is he/isn't he bad would have been the thing to be the cliff hangar in s10 and he might leave early on then. What other story can we see providing the cliff hanger to the next series.

If the H/R and Lucas threads reach a conclusion this series, I tend to think it is more likely to be because they were not certain there will even be a 10th series at time of production of S9.

I am also not prepared to condemn the writers at this stage, I still hope there will be a good resolution to Lucas that will not see him leave in disgrace. A last minute, spur of the moment act to save Harry or Ruth would be more of a cop out than a consolation, so I hope they don't go with something as trite as that.

(23-10-2010 12:31 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  I don't think we should assume Lucas is leaving because of RA's other work. I don't know when Spooks 9 finished production, but I am pretty sure Peter Jackson was not in The Hobbit picture then and I don't think TH was even a goer at that time.

I am also not prepared to condemn the writers at this stage, I still hope there will be a good resolution to Lucas that will not see him leave in disgrace.

From what I understand, Peter Jackson was always Executive Producer on The Hobbit he just didn't want to direct it. He and his wife, Fran Walsh, make the final casting decisions. I have been seeing casting calls since December 2009. RA would have auditioned for this for months. He's not so well known that he doesn't have to go through an extensive audition process. Then there were months of faffing about re: director and union issues. They couldn't legally announce any cast until all that was resolved. It starts production in February 2011. I am not worried about them finding a different location than NZ. Any country would be happy to take the 500 million. I dunno, guys. I could be wrong but Thorin is a pretty big role. And a role that RA is going to be fabulous in, so I'm looking forward to that!

Certainly Spooks filmed two endings because they didn't know if there was going to be an S10, but I wonder if Spooks made two ending b/c they didn't know if RA was going to be available for an S10? I think he might have that kind of pull. And here I was thinking that RA's casting in The Hobbit wasn't announced because they didn't want to give away RA's fate on Spooks.

I'm with you re:the writers. We still have two very pivotal episodes to get through. I, frankly, am at a loss.

Niggling thought: Maya was in on "it" all along and betrays Lucas at the end.

Since the storyline has been following a sacrifices made for MI5 theme I can see why it's heading for a showdown between both Harry and Lucas as they struggle with their choice of love over profession. They've both been on a similar journey but Harry feels he lost love because he chose MI5 and world peace by allowing George to be killed and Lucas has chosen love over an organisation that, let's be honest, left him rotting in a Russian prison for eight years. I'm not writing Lucas off completely as there is a decent soul in there and I can't see him wanting to hurt Harry any more than he will have done already. So anyway, my real point is, let's not forget the Chinese assassins in all this. It could be the team are chasing after Lucas to protect him but he doesn't know it and keeps running. It could be the Chinese kidnap Ruth and tell Harry you get her back alive for Lucas. Perhaps something happens between Harry and Ruth before they know they are being watched during the cyber attack on Monday and the Chinese pick up on their relationship and figure a good way to get to Lucas via Harry. There's Vaughn too. Suddenly fit and healthy and setting Lucas up big time.

See, just too many options so put that cake away before you all explode!

(23-10-2010 01:44 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  Niggling thought: Maya was in on "it" all along and betrays Lucas at the end.

With regards to RA, surely he would have had a contract in place with Kudos for S10, well before now. Also, with money so tight, would they really have filmed two endings, just for RA's sake? Surely there is only one ending but you could start S10 off either way. Like Ros could have survived that explosion?

As for Maya, I have seen a couple of things that Laila Rouass has appeared in and she always plays a strong character, and if I can be frank, a first class bitch! It would be a waste of this actress if there wasn't more to come from her, except kissing Lucas.

(23-10-2010 12:31 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  I am also not prepared to condemn the writers at this stage, I still hope there will be a good resolution to Lucas that will not see him leave in disgrace. A last minute, spur of the moment act to save Harry or Ruth would be more of a cop out than a consolation, so I hope they don't go with something as trite as that.

That wouldn't be better than Connie offering to disarm the bomb by sacrificing her own life. Connie was still a baddie and redeemed.