Going back to 9.4 - Maya must have been complicit in allowing someone to get out of the front door in the scene in Lucas’s apartment and

I really hope they do give Maya a twist, because if not her character is going to feel incredibly lightweight. She's going to give woman doctors in Britain a bad name. There has to be more to her than we are seeing.

That infamous kitchen table scene must have been cut out at a late stage. The BBC must have vetoed it because I'm sure RA talked about it in his pre-season interviews.

(03-11-2010 04:37 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Maybe at the end of this episode, we will be shown that this who entire Series 9 was just a dream!

That Lucas was captured by some evil terrorists and they drugged him to mess with his head, and his mind created this whole crazy world that he thinks is real but it's not. And the end of the final episode could be the team coming to Lucas's rescue and saves him from illusions that the terrorists used to mess with his head.

And then the team can go on happily ever after!

I know that's a little far-fetched, but at least it only wastes one series and not two with the storyline they have right now.

You know, I had exactly the same idea! At the moment this seems to be the only plausible ending: we see Lucas in bed, the phone rings and it's Harry who asks: "Where the hell are you? We're all waiting for you!" And Lucas answer is: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I must have overslept. But you know, I had such weird dreams last night."

(03-11-2010 10:47 AM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  

(03-11-2010 04:37 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Maybe at the end of this episode, we will be shown that this who entire Series 9 was just a dream!

That Lucas was captured by some evil terrorists and they drugged him to mess with his head, and his mind created this whole crazy world that he thinks is real but it's not. And the end of the final episode could be the team coming to Lucas's rescue and saves him from illusions that the terrorists used to mess with his head.

And then the team can go on happily ever after!

I know that's a little far-fetched, but at least it only wastes one series and not two with the storyline they have right now.

You know, I had exactly the same idea! At the moment this seems to be the only plausible ending: we see Lucas in bed, the phone rings and it's Harry who asks: "Where the hell are you? We're all waiting for you!" And Lucas answer is: "Oh, I'm so sorry, I must have overslept. But you know, I had such weird dreams last night."

And Harry's answer can be "you took the little green pills again didn't you, I told you it was the blue ones!"

*Lucas smacks head in shame* "I did something stupid again...."

And Harry says "It's okay, just come and you get hugs."

Lucas is happy and runs off to work!

See! Isn't that a much better ending? People get a taste of Lucas gone all wrong, AND I get my Lucas/Harry hugs!

Hello, first post here, lovely forum you've got!

I've read all your posts, or most of them. I agree with many theories here. May I join in the speculation? It helps pass the days till we find out what the writers actually wrote.

Anyway... this is what I recently posted in another Spooks/RA forum.

Remember the photos in the suitcase? They were exactly what we saw, John and Vaughn, the casino garden, everything. OK, yes, in real life they where taken when those flashback episodes where filmed, simple thing but...

...but what if those photos just triggered the sleeper John personality, opened up his implanted memories? First it was Vaughn and his fake stroke, then the photos. Could they have been coated with some chemical too, some hallucinating drug? That means that Maya is on to the game too, keeping John's illusion in place.

I still think that Lucas was brainwashed. He *IS* Lucas North, that casino picture has been tampered with. Perhaps there was a John Bateman, the other man, Lucas met him, but maybe he tried to stop him, failed and it always weight heavy on his conscience. He went back to MI5 and hid what he knew, because he wanted to atone for that huge failure. In Russia during his prison years, he told them about Dakar and the Russians and Chinese found the perfect man to make a sleeper out of. They played with his mind, his memories, his guilt, and developed the John inside him, or made him think he was John. Vaughn triggered the sleeper and slowly John ate way at Lucas, with Lucas finally consumed.

Let me recap:
- Lucas North is our Lucas. He did go to Dakar.

- There he met John Bateman. He figured out he was evil, but could not stop him.

- Vaughn and John saw the young idealistic Lucas, used him a bit.

- Lucas saw the bombing in Dakar, felt incredibly guilty, but had no evidence against Vaughn or John.

- He went back to the UK and became a MI5 officer.

- He gets caught in Russia, put in prison. Under interrogation, he tells them about Dakar. Russians and Chinese like that and through extreme brainwashing procedures, they plant in his mind the thought that *HE* was John, and develop in him a sleeper personality.

- At the right time, now, Vaughn appears and triggers the sleeper John free. His pre-conditioned words, "you are not Lucas North", the photos in the suitcase, all his words, they are the hypnotists orders for the sleeper to awake. And he does. Lucas North gets consumed by John.

- Maya... I think she's in on it. Maybe brainwashed too. Maybe she was Lucas' girlfriend and they brainwashed her too. I watched some scenes again and I noticed this: every time John speaks to or does something for Vaughn, he then immediately goes to Maya. It's like... like a dog doing what his master told him and then wanting his treat. He doesn't reason with it, just goes for it. And then the master threatens to take the treat away. Like a man with an addiction, John no longer questions, just does everything to have his fix afterward.

Fifteen years is a long time to have a fix. I think that Maya is part of the trick. She was used as a reward system and then the sleeper John took full control.

Also... the painting that was not the Albany file. It showed a British ship exploding. Could it have been another trigger? The trigger of the fake Dakar memories?

Is Lucas/John really Albany? Was this whole trip his journey to fully succumb to the John/Albany personality? Maybe. And Harry knows this. He knows and he's trying to find out the big bad wolves behind this. He's both using and trying to protect Lucas, because he knows he's been brainwashed.

Which reminds me of a "Babylon 5" episode, a twist in a character. Talia Winters was implanted with a sleeper personality, one that was a mole. Talia never knew/realized what she was doing. Then she was given the right trigger, a message, and that was it, the sleeper personality took completely over, no more Talia. Could the same have been done to Lucas?

Yeah... straws... let's clutch them for a while, eh?

(03-11-2010 07:14 AM)Naivety Wrote:  I really hope they do give Maya a twist, because if not her character is going to feel incredibly lightweight. She's going to give woman doctors in Britain a bad name. There has to be more to her than we are seeing.

That infamous kitchen table scene must have been cut out at a late stage. The BBC must have vetoed it because I'm sure RA talked about it in his pre-season interviews.

Series 9.7 Spoiler: show

And the photo in 9.7 sort of shows that it was enacted - so what happened to it?

From the look of that photo, that Kitchen Table scene should've been at either the end of episode 3 or start of 4. But in saying that, it looks like the clumsiest and most awkward "love" scene in years, to the point of being a charicature. I'd been looking forward to seeing it, as it might've SHOWN that she loved him, but I'm (now) glad they left it out. I'd expected something far more sensuous - even the ones with She-who-must-not-be-named looked better than that. I mean, has Maya even SMILED at him? I thought lovers did that...

---

3 more things:

1) Vaughan to Lucas: "You're a killer, John." (programmed?)
and from the filming sessions:

Hand me those straws!

No, it's not Lucas having a dream. It's Ros! She's alive but in a coma. The series ends with her waking up.

Well as RA is due to start filming The Hobbit next year, does that mean he is "free" to do it and means no more Spooks.

The more I go back and watch episodes of series 9, the more I see a manipulation/hypnotism on Lucas. Vaughn carefully sets a series of triggers and Maya is the reward.

- Fifteen years and you haven't changed.
- What's been like, being Lucas North?
- Good to see you John.
- Did you open the suitcase?
- The suitcase has photos and casino chips, a passport and a photo of Maya.
- Good boy John opened the suitcase -> treat/reward/fix is Maya.
- Maya keeps saying it's been 15 years, I don't know you. You want her, you want her to remember, you want to be the John she knew.
- Vaughn = Want her forever? Get Albany.
- Lucas/John gets Albany, it's a photo of an exploding British ship. Another trigger?
- Immediately afterward, Lucas runs to Maya, like a dog wanting his candy after he did a good did.
- Maya keeps insisting that it's been so long, she wants to be sure it's the John she knew.
- Vaughn says it's not the real Albany, get the real one, or Maya will know who you are (not her John, Lucas?). Like a drug addict, you want your fix and you'll stay John to get it.
- Vaughn then threatens to take away Maya. "You had nothing, I gave you her". Again, John is nothing without Maya, his fix.
- John goes to Malcolm for Albany, then immediately back for a Maya fix, but Vaughn tells him it's a fake. That sends him over the edge.
- Vaughn sets off the final trigger. Dakar and the ugly past.
- When Vaughn kidnaps Maya, that's it. John embraces his fix completely, the sleeper awakens. The killer is set.

Notice how all of Vaughn's words were like a mantra? Hypnotic, repeating. Even Maya has been doing the same, repeating that she doesn't know John, it's been 15 years, it's got to be forever. The sleeper was pulled out, fed orders and treats, got him addicted and finally totally commanding.

As I said, straws... maybe...

(03-11-2010 11:18 AM)NightOwl Wrote:  No, it's not Lucas having a dream. It's Ros! She's alive but in a coma. The series ends with her waking up.

LOL! That is one hell of a dream! Ros must be on some pretty good drugs there!!

*Ros wakes up and sees Harry and Lucas* "Oh you wouldn't believe this dream I had!"

Harry: "That Lucas turned psychopath and everyone ran around like decapitated chickens and everything was messed up?"

*confused* Ros: "Yeah exactly that! How did you know?"

*Lucas and Harry give each other a look* Lucas: "Ummm....."

Ros: "It happened didn't it!"

Lucas: "Yes...it did..."

Ros: "Then how are you still here??"

Lucas: "Well.....you see we found out my old flame from 15 years ago was this big evil bad guy so we created this very confusing elaborate conspiracy to weed her out so I had to pretend to be a good guy who was a bad guy who was a good guy and then became a bad guy who loved her but didn't really love her and then really love her and...."

*overwhelmed* Ros: "Ahhh stop! No more!! Just get me out of here!"

See? Isn't that a more reasonable and fun ending?