(18-11-2010 03:56 PM)Silktie Wrote:  

(18-11-2010 02:21 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  Harry and Dimitri have one other very big thing in common, they both come from a military background. Very different branches of course, but military none the less. They were both head-hunted for the job too. I think one of my S10 wishes will be development of that dynamic.

That's true. Harry's dynamic with Beth can do with some exploring as well. He didn't really want her on the team after events in 9.2, but gave in because Lucas wanted her. Has Harry now changed his mind about her?

That's an interesting thought, Silktie. Lucas really did give Beth another "second chance." If Lucas is now tarnished, what does that mean for Beth?

Here's another issue to ponder:

Does Harry still have the respect of his team after events in 9.8? He did give away a state secret to save the woman he loves, and let's not forget the gassing of Beth and Dimitri in that church.

(18-11-2010 05:11 PM)Silktie Wrote:  Here's another issue to ponder:

Does Harry still have the respect of his team after events in 9.8? He did give away a state secret to save the woman he loves, and let's not forget the gassing of Beth and Dimitri in that church.

If he does, I'm wouldn't be surprised and would probably even cheer a little (okay so I'm still kinda angry at him), because let's face it, Harry doesn't seem to tell his team anything unless he feels the need to, and protecting them or not, it is rather unfair and a bit self-righteous of him to ask for their trust when he can't place it on them.

So if his team does lose respect, I like to see Harry having to earn it back the hard way.

Agreed. It will be unrealistic if there isn't some effect on the team, and they just continue as if nothing happened.

(18-11-2010 05:46 PM)Silktie Wrote:  Agreed. It will be unrealistic if there isn't some effect on the team, and they just continue as if nothing happened.

Yup!

This team is suppose to be loyal and trust Harry's judgment, but if he can turn on them and run his own maverick way (even if under the guise of protecting them), then he shouldn't set such high standards in asking his team to give him unquestionable loyalty. And if the team cannot trust Harry then this team cannot function the way it should.

A leader can only lead the team best when his people trust and respect him. If the team doesn't have that for Harry, then Section D is done.

Harry berates others for being mavericks and not trusting, but Harry has done many maverick moves too. A bit of pot calling the kettle black.

Woa, whoa, woah (how the hell do you spell that?)

Just back up a moment there.

"I do wonder though whether this had something to do with the reported burgeoning Ruth and Dimitri relationship, which Harry was purported to have quashed, and which clearly ended up on the cutting room floor."

What have I missed here? I know nothing about this. Enlightenment please!

(18-11-2010 06:23 PM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  Woa, whoa, woah (how the hell do you spell that?)

Just back up a moment there.

"I do wonder though whether this had something to do with the reported burgeoning Ruth and Dimitri relationship, which Harry was purported to have quashed, and which clearly ended up on the cutting room floor."

What have I missed here? I know nothing about this. Enlightenment please!

I think, but could be wrong, that this was mentioned in a SKY magazine interview with Max Brown. I think it was Aria that posted. It was discussed a little at the time.

All I can say about the trust issue, is that Beth and Dimitri didn't seem to hold it against Harry when he returned to the office. Plus, the fact that Harry went alone to meet Lucas, may mean that any grudge they held, was quickly forgotten and replaced with the utmost respect. Also, they may all be secretly glad that Harry won't stand for another of his officers dying.

(18-11-2010 05:58 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  This team is suppose to be loyal and trust Harry's judgment, but if he can turn on them and run his own maverick way (even if under the guise of protecting them), then he shouldn't set such high standards in asking his team to give him unquestionable loyalty. And if the team cannot trust Harry then this team cannot function the way it should.

One can of course also argue that this goes both ways. Does someone who lies and deceives (think Beth in 9.2) the rest of the team have the right to judge her team leader when he does the same?

Also, I think context is important. We tend to forget that Harry did have a plan to save Ruth and to get Albany back from Lucas at the hotel. But Lucas saw through the plan and it backfired. Beth and Dimitri knows it was not just a plain swap with no intention to get Albany back.

While Beth and Dimitri might not be particularly happy with Harry's actions, they may on some level be grudgingly impressed with the way the old-timer got one over on them. It's nice to see those field officer skills are still in working order with him.

(19-11-2010 03:40 PM)Silktie Wrote:  While Beth and Dimitri might not be particularly happy with Harry's actions, they may on some level be grudgingly impressed with the way the old-timer got one over on them. It's nice to see those field officer skills are still in working order with him.

We don't get to see those skills very often, but when Harry does them, he does them with such finesse. Those young officers should be impressed.

harrbd wrote on the HR forum:

I agree that Harry's first thought was for Albany / the Country, Ruth and maybe Lucas. However it was clear from episode 1 that Harry had had enough and wanted out. During the series he has struggled to make the decisions needed. By the end of episode 8 he had lost Albany, Lucas and Ruth's respect and devotion. Therefore you have to assume that mentally he is in a worse state and will still want to quit. During the episode Alec gives him a warning saying "Harry there will be no way back." Harry goes anyway and even tells the HS that he has given Albany to Lucas / Chinese.

Also, you have to take into consideration whether he would have the respect / confidence of Dimitri and Beth in view of the decisions he made.

All in all, the powers that be want him to go, he wants to go and his team probably don't have enough confidence in Harry to fight for him.

I think it looks bleak for Harry and I'm hoping that Ruth comes up with something really special to save him and get him back to how he used to be. She needs to for all our sakes as MI5 needs Harry and I want Peter Firth in Spooks !

That raises an interesting question: do people think Harry will actually fight to save his career in season 10, or has he had enough and will therefore just accept it if the Powers That Be get rid of him?