This thread is (self evidently) for discussion of episode 7.

I'm hoping to join you all soon.

The poll is just for fun. I'm interested to see how people rate episodes as we go. And also because we haven't had a poll in a while.

Wooooh! HR!!!! (Ok, I'm getting this overexcited about them touching fingers, who knows what I'll be like if anything major actually happens!!!)

Erm, that's it for the moment I'm too cold to write much (and also smiling too much...)

Well for the Lucas factor, clearly I enjoyed this episode much more than the last one! Wow, way to go, Lucas!

Wow, you all must have gone to bed after this episode!

First let's get all the jokes about Lucas fixing leaky taps out of the way. You can only contribute a joke to this mix if you post legitimate, chunky posts about the episode. I'll go first:
"He can come round and fix my pipes any time."

I'll divide the rest of my comments into 3 sections: aesthetic, theoretical and trivial.

Aesthestic -
*Ros' suit in those first scenes was really awesome.

*Tariq seems to be growing a longer moustache. I'm sure he really likes Movember.

*Loved the use of the London Eye and the Aquarium as locations, although whenever I see the London Eye I'm reminded of Catherine Tate's crack about breast implants possibly blowing up on them.

*The Home Sec's a young thing, isn't he?

Theoretical -
*As I said on the episode summary thread, I'm a little biased given my fascination with Indian and Pakistani politics, but this was a storyline long overdue given Britain's cultural and political landscape. And it didn't disappoint. Ashok's youth as an asset and his reasons for getting involved with this crowd in the first place (they were the only ones who would accept him, even a little) ring far too true for my liking. That kid was sharp as from the beginning, and his story was utterly moving. How horrific was that final scene in the siege? Truly frightening.

*the ongoing themes of how lying is a common-place part of being a spy and how you deal with the guilt and subsequent fallout from that were well explored. More about that in the themes thread when I've slept and am more coherent.

*I love it when Harry makes broad historical comparisons, in this case, to the British Civil War. Not because they're inaccurate or anything, they're just great lines. Very Harry. And wonderful promo moments.

*On another personal topic, I loved the Professor's comparison of Sanskrit to a woman. Not the simile as such, but more that I really empathised with the complexities and ambiguities of translation.

Trivial -
*It's not really trivial, but lovely Harry/Ruth moments.

*Good score for this episode. Not intrusive, but especially in the first part of the hour, was a beautiful balance to the story and nicely punctuated certain moments.

*I want to start a drinking game involving Harry and the line "Get me the Home Secretary."

Good Harry & Ruth bits but not enough of them & what we did get were far too short for me....... good episode though

Any discussion of this episode has to begin with Ashley Kumar as Ashok -- extraordinary well-acted, especially for a one-time appearance. This kid was absolutely outstanding! I loved that he called Lucas out every single time L tried to give him the "thousands will die if you don't help" argument. And though Ruth worried that "He's just a boy . . . He has to take the risk, a 17 year old boy has to take the risk," Ashok wound up becoming the conscience of the ep:
To Dhillon: "You've become what you hate"
To Lucas: "Victor played him like you played me, liar man."
I was also pleasantly surprised that he was still alive by the end of the ep -- nice change of pace!

The new HS -- who would appoint someone that young to such an important position? Harry's right not to trust him, imo. As I was listening to him lecturing H about why the attack "can't happen," all I could think was "what presumption." Is he part of Nightingale? I think yes.

Poor Tariq --lost his MI5 virginity! "We killed him" -- T's learned that it's not all geek speak and toys for the boys.

A couple of nice, but fleeting, H/R moments:
Harry: "It's not nothing, Ruth, and I'm glad you're here to remind us. To remind me."

Ruth: "It's the right call, really" -- and touches his hand. (Her unspoken meaning: "Yes, I do understand and it's ok.")

Is Ros suspicious of Lucas? She asks him why C2.0 didn't kill him.

Also, no apparant disciplining of Lucas by Harry re last ep -- why?

And we finally know what Nightingale's immediate objective is -- nuclear war between India and Pakistan.

(12-12-2009 04:09 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Any discussion of this episode has to begin with Ashley Kumar as Ashok -- extraordinary well-acted, especially for a one-time appearance. This kid was absolutely outstanding!

He was excellent, also had the best lines.

(12-12-2009 04:09 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  The new HS -- who would appoint someone that young to such an important position? Harry's right not to trust him, imo. As I was listening to him lecturing H about why the attack "can't happen," all I could think was "what presumption." Is he part of Nightingale? I think yes.

I suspected him as soon as he said they were going to negotiate.

(12-12-2009 04:09 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Ruth: "It's the right call, really" -- and touches his hand.

All I could think was that the shippers are now going ape.

Some other thoughts,

*Music excellent and so Bourne-like. Hope Moby is getting royalties.
*Camera continues to please, especially outstanding when Victor is staggering and almost losing consciousness.
*Ros: "You dropped your potato peeler" made me laugh out loud. (When she asked him why, the writers passed up a good one, "Sarah used me for sex." Umm, maybe not.)
*Nice (well, awesome really) change in subject matter.
*Ashok's argument to resolve the situation almost seems like the most important idea in the whole world right now. It's happening everywhere, people with the same blood, brothers actually, killing eachother over varying belief systems.
*Episode gets my vote as best ever. Anyone want to try to talk me out of it, I'm listening.

(12-12-2009 05:04 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  *Ashok's argument to resolve the situation almost seems like the most important idea in the whole world right now. It's happening everywhere, people with the same blood, brothers actually, killing each other over varying belief systems.

Absolutely. Ashok was pleading with Dhillon to recognize their common ancestry, their shared heritage, their familial ties. It's a story as old as Isaac and Ishmael, and just as destructive.

A West Wing fan

This really will stand I think, as one of my favourite episodes. The guest stars this season have been the best since season 4, although not as high profile. lwhite53 put it nicely, that Ashok was the conscience of this episode, the moral compass. Although who would have done anything differently?

Although very brave, Lucas reminded me a little of Adam in 5.10 by charging into the school in that final movement. He's very reckless these days, and that muscle Peter Firth gives such a workout in his jaw seems to indicate that he knows it too.

That final speech of Ashok's to Dhillon is true of so many conflicts based on race and religion. Israel and Palestine, Catholic and Protestant in Northern Ireland, India and Pakistan with Kashmir in the middle. The irony is that what they have in common is equally significant.

Speaking of Kashmir, I suspect that spectre will appear in the next episode. It's hard to talk about India and Pakistan without at least touching upon it.

Come on youtube. It sounds like a ripper ep