Episode 3 Discussion

[spooksdreamer]

(24-05-2010 03:41 PM)RoninExec Wrote:  Okay I'm behind again, with every series coming here a year later...
Dunno if anybody mentioned it (I skim read the 14 pages), but this final scene does not make much sense. Jo grabs the terrorist's gun hand (actually, wrist), which would neither prevent him from pressing the remote det, nor firing his pistol.
Next, if you really have no choice but go for someone's gun, a pro would stick her fingers behind the trigger or between hammer and frame (on a single action pistol) to prevent the gun from firing. Basic hand to hand technique with an armed opponent.
In other words, and in terms of plausibility, what Jo did amounted to nothing. The guy could virtually still depress the det AND shoot his pistol.
I know it's only a TV show, but there are still ways to make it a little bit believable. A little effort please !
Anyway, MR is gone, as well as the last reason I had left to watch the show.

You're points are valid but I didn't really think about his while watching.. Good though.

[Kazters]

how totaly underused was ros in this ep! i mean really! that said what she had to do at the end was heartbreaking and in ep4 we actualy see it has affected her wich isnt something you see all the time with ros. i didnt think she liked jo that much!

i think that yeah there are elements to jos death that let it down but not while i was watching! ive been waiting for her to go for a while especialy since adam died.

i liked this ep, i liked ruth being back where she belonged but i longed for harry to go and hug her when he heard her sobbing at the door over jo!

[allanah]

Ros underused? Hmm, she still managed to get about twice as much airtime as Jo in her final episode.

And Ros had a ton of airtime in series 5, 6, 7 at the expense of a heap of other characters like Zaf, Jo, Malcolm and others who only got about 20% of the amount of screentime she had. Series 5 - 8 have been the Ros/ Adam then Ros/ Lucas show.

I'm not a Ros fan so I don't enjoy the focus on only a few characters at the expense of the others.

[Kazters]

now see i disagree, she may have been in shot but she wasnt doing anything! i would much prefer ros over jo i always found jo a little needy that said i think she went through more than most in recent eps (not saying ros hasnt).

i agree that at times that the focus is on harry, ros and lucas, and in s7 and s8 we see much less of them trying to enjoy there life outsude section D (can be argued that stopped after s3 with zoe). but they are the leads, they are the main focus and personaly they are the charactors that seem to have the most developed plots. that isnt to say jo, malcome, ben, zaf etc are liek supporting actors they arent but they arent the focus they are there to support the work of the section leaders and they do it very well, and sadley are the ones who go first.

[A Cousin]

(07-07-2010 11:35 AM)Kazters Wrote:  that isnt to say jo, malcome, ben, zaf etc are liek supporting actors they arent but they arent the focus they are there to support the work of the section leaders and they do it very well, and sadley are the ones who go first.

Here's the thing for me, anytime I have not been happy with the structure of this show has been with insufficient character development. For me, Spooks is an ensemble piece and works best that way. I may have my personal preferences for certain characters over others, but when any one of them goes, I look forward to the shift in character dynamics that will inevitably come.

Jo's demise didn't leave me feeling like I want to feel when a character leaves the show: like I will never love again. I didn't believe that if Jo really wanted to live she couldn't have found a different way to hold the guy. They could have concentrated a bit more on what led Jo to believe that she needed to sacrifice herself in such a way. They touch on it, but didn't develop it sufficiently in the buildup to Jo's death. They were trying too hard to make Jo's death a surprise, utilize it for another character and they sacrificed the character of Jo in the process. After so many really great write-outs, I think they failed with Jo.

[SPOOK91]

I always got the impression that Ros did care about Jo, perhaps not in an obvious way, but for example also the way in which she gave Jo the pictures of the dead Redback, she had empathy with her, them both being women in the service. It was as if Ros knew that that is what Jo needed to see and needed the assurance that the guy was not coming back for her. A finality you could say.

Yeah I would also agree there is a much larger focus on the characters of Ros, Lucas and Harry. Although as the members on the grid has decreased the other characters have also had more screen time. Such as Malcolm in 8.1. I do agree with Allanah about Ros having far more screen time than most in some of the later series', 6 in particular.

[JHyde]

I agree with A Cousin on this one. Especially given how well Jo's character was developed over the seasons she was with the show (despite playing second fiddle to Ros and HN), it was a real let down and a disappointing write out. Episode 2, as I think we said many months ago, felt like Jo's final episode in better ways than this one. Especially given how powerful everyone else's fatal exits have been (Colin's, Danny's, Helen's, Connie's and even Ben's for crying out loud), I really think they did Jo and MR a disservice.

I feel this very strongly after watching Jo's entry to the show this last week on the re-watch. Even though it's one of the weaker entries, Jo became a very different person as well as retaining her gentleness and compassion throughout. So it was a poor write out and I think MR and Jo deserved better, however brave and powerful her final moment. I think after the shock of her exit the first time you see it (and MR blew it big time in that interview where she actually admitted she was leaving before season 8 aired), it's not an exit that will replay well.

As to the question of Ros caring for Jo - Ros was never good at showing how she felt about people. But regardless of personal feelings (and I think she really liked Jo a lot) she was there for her in a very real way. Not as a mentor, but as a role model definitely. If you think back to 5.3, Jo disapproves of Ros' decisions certainly, but by golly she respects Ros for who she is and that only gets stronger over the next couple of seasons.

[allanah]

I agree with A Cousin too. There has to be a variety of characters on screen all with some character development and some scenes that provide insight into their characters to keep people interested. People will always identify with some characters and not others and the focus on only a few characters means that there is less in the show to appeal to people.

Also some of the best moments are the interplays between characters - think Malcolm/ Colin and the mice scene in season 4 or some of the comic Zaf scenes in seasons 4 and 5. If you have minor characters whose characters aren't developed and who don't get any screen time then you miss out on this stuff and that is disappoiniting.

And regarding the Jo/ Ros relationship - I always felt that since Ros' arrival on the show she was always the focus at the expense of Jo getting any screen time or storylines herself. I felt that 8.3 continued this in that Jo got hardly any screentime in her final episode and Ros again had more screen time and the focus at the end of the episode was Ros and the consequences of her actions. I felt that the writers did the character of Jo a disservice by not giving her her own storyline or more screentime. MR can really act - you see that in 6.10 but she apart from that she wasn't given very much material by the writers to work with sadly.

[Jonnobaas_sea]

35 minutes into this episode & I'm ready to throw in the towel. Why/how was this script approved? It's DUMB & BORING. I'm getting rather disgusted w/brain-splattering & guns & whingey little terrorists. Nothing so far has caught my attention, even Ruth's return... one word to describe the script for this episode: T I R E D. It must've been hellish for the actors to recite these treacly lines. I bought this series & I really would like to contact the writers & demand 1/8 of my purchase $ back. There's no price for the time wasted viewing it. Basta!

[RoninExec]

You got that right.