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Tea Lady · 09-11-2010, 11:55 AM

Ok, let me just throw this into the ring as it's about 50/50 as to whether you liked the ending or not. We have heard multiple stories that Kudos filmed two endings, also from PF's mouth, that Harry got blood on his shirt in the final scene. I didn't see any blood on his shirt.

So, what if there was another ending, one where Lucas redeems himself, and survives. He doesn't throw himself off the roof. What if this was the ending they were going to use BUT as RA got the part in the Hobbit, he has not renewed his contract with Kudos. Hence, they had to go with the other ending, which people would obviously be more disappointed with. Hence we didn't see Lucas actually throw himself off the building, because it wasn't what was going to happen.

I have already said that I felt that Harry standing on the roof in the dark, at the end, didn't seem real. You didn't actually see Harry speak on the phone to the HS, just a voice over. The footage was also the same as the end of 9.1. I think that this was not going to be the original ending. Hence, we didn't get the usual Spooks cliff hanger at the end.

I will probably get shouted at here, but how do the people who are criticising the ending and who hate what happened to Lucas, know that it was not forced upon Kudos because Richard Armitage handed his notice in, at the last moment? I'm not saying that I am correct in this, but how do we know? We don't know but there are several things pointing to this. I have a feeling that this was not the ending Kudos wanted. Also it would have been bleeding obvious that RA would not be in S10 when he was away filming in New Zealand for two years, so what would have been the point of leaving his survival as a cliff hanger.

What I am saying here is, what if Richard Armitage's career choice directly caused the unhappy demise of Lucas, that we saw last night. It this is the case, I don't see how people can be shouting at Kudos or the writers. Perhaps people should be shouting at Richard Armitage himself.

If I were an entertainment journalist, the question I would be asking Kudos is, was there a second ending and was the ending you gave us, the ending you wanted?

Things are never just black and white and if people are thinking that this was a strange ending for a Spooks series, then there is probably more to it than we know.

kieran · (This post was last modified: 09-11-2010 12:31 PM by kieran.)

Is it just me or did this alec character give it all the air of some lame detecive drama?The thing i liked about lucas was he was such an original character and imagination was employed to create him.

If this alec character stays in its going to be like watching bloody rebus,or maybe robson green can come in and take over from lucas north.

tastiger · 09-11-2010, 12:33 PM

Lucas was a hero. For the past 3 seasons he has been a hero. I watched him come into MI-5 tortured in more ways than one. He was a battered soul who for 8 years thought no one remembered where he was or what he was enduring. He behaved with bravery and proved to himself and his team that he deserved to be their leader.

All the other lead characters who have been killed off went out trying to save others. I hated to see them go but I was satisfied that their characters stayed true to the end and that was my consolation. Not so with Lucas and that is where I do not agree with the way the writers handled RA's departure. You don't make a character believable and lead the audience to develop a connection to him then out of the blue portray him as someone totally unbelievable. My faith in all of the characters in MI-5 is shot...are the writers telling us that we should believe in nothing and no one? If that is their message than watching MI-5 will be a pretty empty experience filled with characters who all have hidden agendas, who can't be trusted. That makes for a truly sad situation.

The writers for season 9 exploited my faith in Lucas...and that's what I find deplorable.

kieran · 09-11-2010, 12:44 PM

Also not too keen on someone who has been on strictly come dancing being in the show,it just mentally blocks me from getting into it and it is lazy casting by the bbc,having said that she has got a great bum.

HellsBells · 09-11-2010, 12:44 PM

Just re watched this episode. It is so incredible sad, and I guess now I know that Lucas doesn't redeem himself in any way, makes the previous series so pointless. I understand the point that Tea Lady is making about RA other projects, but I loved the back story of Lucas the tortured, but loyal spy. He deserved a better ending or at least a chance to survive.
And if they can do this character assassination to Lucas, is any member of the Grid who you think they are?

SeniorAnalyst · 09-11-2010, 12:51 PM

I am just so glad Ruth and Harry are alive. And hopefully all the crazy unspookslike script madness dies with Lucas. My issue with it wasn't that it was necessarily out of character for Lucas but that it was all so predictable and forced. The Maya and Vaughn characters were so clearly devices I'd hardly call them characters..

That said I was still on the edge of my seat for the most part and was convinced (even though logic says otherwise) that Harry would die.. The having saved Ruth only to offer up himself to salvage the state secret seemed like might happen for a while there!!

All I can really say is NW is the absolute gem of this cast and bring on more Ruth/Harry in 2011!!

nothingisasitseems · 09-11-2010, 01:14 PM

There is absolutely no way that there will be a Season 10 without PF.

Tea Lady has a good point. Kudos probably wanted RA for another Season but with the possibilty of him getting a part in The Hobbit he wouldn't commit to a further one until he knew the position so the ending was forced upon them.

LucasNorthFan · 09-11-2010, 01:21 PM

Isn't it a bit ironic that Harry was there when Lucas came back to 'life' (from Russian prison) and he was there when Lucas died...

LNF (a bit shattered)

AnnMarie · (This post was last modified: 09-11-2010 01:28 PM by AnnMarie.)

(09-11-2010 11:55 AM)Tea Lady Wrote: So, what if there was another ending, one where Lucas redeems himself, and survives. He doesn't throw himself off the roof. What if this was the ending they were going to use BUT as RA got the part in the Hobbit, he has not renewed his contract with Kudos. Hence, they had to go with the other ending, which people would obviously be more disappointed with. Hence we didn't see Lucas actually throw himself off the building, because it wasn't what was going to happen.

I have already said that I felt that Harry standing on the roof in the dark, at the end, didn't seem real. You didn't actually see Harry speak on the phone to the HS, just a voice over. The footage was also the same as the end of 9.1. I think that this was not going to be the original ending. Hence, we didn't get the usual Spooks cliff hanger at the end.

I will probably get shouted at here, but how do the people who are criticising the ending and who hate what happened to Lucas, know that it was not forced upon Kudos because Richard Armitage handed his notice in, at the last moment? I'm not saying that I am correct in this, but how do we know? We don't know but there are several things pointing to this. I have a feeling that this was not the ending Kudos wanted. Also it would have been bleeding obvious that RA would not be in S10 when he was away filming in New Zealand for two years, so what would have been the point of leaving his survival as a cliff hanger.

What I am saying here is, what if Richard Armitage's career choice directly caused the unhappy demise of Lucas, that we saw last night. It this is the case, I don't see how people can be shouting at Kudos or the writers. Perhaps people should be shouting at Richard Armitage himself.

If I were an entertainment journalist, the question I would be asking Kudos is, was there a second ending and was the ending you gave us, the ending you wanted?

Things are never just black and white and if people are thinking that this was a strange ending for a Spooks series, then there is probably more to it than we know.

Dear TeaLady,

Well, Kudos can't have it both ways. They can't keep the actors in the dark as to their fate each season and then be surprised that actors commit to other acting jobs. They are self-employed, the actors, and need to work. If they planned a series 10 with Lucas then they should have signed him for another series. Simple as that. Also, the Hobbit commitment had to have manifested itself before the final episodes were written and they should have had time (the fans on this website had better plot resolutions) to tidy things up a bit without leaving holes the size of the Grand Canyon (my favorite analogy for this series).

Kudos may very well blame Mr. Armitage, as it will be an attempt to deflect from their own deficiencies. I don't blame him. This was very shoddy writing and the plot was (what is it the Brits say?) oh yes, dodgy (love that word). The acting of the 3 main characters was superb and saved the episode from being utter drivel.

(09-11-2010 01:21 PM)LucasNorthFan Wrote: Isn't it a bit ironic that Harry was there when Lucas came back to 'life' (from Russian prison) and he was there when Lucas died...

LNF (a bit shattered)

LNF-

The circle is complete.

**NightOwl** · 09-11-2010, 01:32 PM

(09-11-2010 11:55 AM)Tea Lady Wrote: I will probably get shouted at here, but how do the people who are criticising the ending and who hate what happened to Lucas, know that it was not forced upon Kudos because Richard Armitage handed his notice in, at the last moment? I'm not saying that I am correct in this, but how do we know? We don't know but there are several things pointing to this. I have a feeling that this was not the ending Kudos wanted. Also it would have been bleeding obvious that RA would not be in S10 when he was away filming in New Zealand for two years, so what would have been the point of leaving his survival as a cliff hanger.

What I am saying here is, what if Richard Armitage's career choice directly caused the unhappy demise of Lucas, that we saw last night. It this is the case, I don't see how people can be shouting at Kudos or the writers. Perhaps people should be shouting at Richard Armitage himself.

If I were an entertainment journalist, the question I would be asking Kudos is, was there a second ending and was the ending you gave us, the ending you wanted?

Things are never just black and white and if people are thinking that this was a strange ending for a Spooks series, then there is probably more to it than we know.

Let me start shouting:

Seriously? It's Richard Armitage's fault and not the writers? Seriously?

So if RA hadn't given his notice, Lucas would have what? What's the "real" ending the that the writers wanted that would have pleased us all but RA thwarted. How was this mess of plot actually supposed to end? All would be forgiven? Lucas would have returned as Section Chief and lived happily ever after?

The writers chose Lucas's fate, plain and simple. They created the idea of the Dakar and false identity. They had Lucas sell Albany to the Chinese. It seems quite clear to me that the writers knew at least halfway through the series that RA was not returning. (Although who made that decision, RA or TPTB, is not clear.) They made the choices that lead directly to the rooftop scene, not RA.

Please don't defend the idiocy of the the writers by slurring the actor.