Series 10 - Episode 5 Discussion

[expat]

Just a brief observation. Ilya. Gives me the creeps. Comparing Harry's house to that of Russian cold war soldier's, saying the houses were small, but still seemed too large. Comparing the tortoise in his garden to Harry. Suggesting that Harry's world is very small, and controlled by Ilya. Creepy, I tell you.

Also, Harry asking Elena if Ilya had changed as a man, as a husband. Suggesting that maybe Elena had, in the past, told Harry that Ilya was brute. Creepy.

But maybe Elena lied in the past, to justify her betrayal/adultery. Maybe they are very much in love now. But still, Ilya. <shudder>

[kaytea411]

A few questions from the last episode (random sequence / random thoughts):

1) What was Harry doing while Ruth was lifting the laptop?

Series 10.6 Spoiler: show

I mentioned a couple days ago, I thought he was contacting the returning character for assistance. I still think this is most likely, but he was acting so weird a worse thought occurred to me: could it be that that Ruth was right to be insecure.....She is just being manipulated as an asset by Harry. Harry said he had to follow-up on his thoughts. I have no idea what this meant. Do you?

2) Why was Coaver's laptop at the hotel if he was leaving the country for Rotterdam?
I have no idea why this would be the case, nor how the CIA got to it before MI-5. It should have been with his luggage in the Audi.

3) If Elena loves her husband and speaks so 'fondly of him,' why did she make such a pass at Harry: "kiss me, it's the least you can do"?

With this move from Elena, combined with Ilya's confession that she was held for interrogation post-Harry/Coaver, plus the fact that she was in the image Tariq uncovered prior to his death -- I think she is the traitor and poor Sasha will be used to have her confess.

4) Lastly, I thought Harry's comment "you wouldn't refuse a man his last request, would you" to Tower's was weird and it seemed to catch Towers off guard to push the signing forward. Why?
I may have interpreted the scene incorrectly, but it's the first time I've seriously considered that Towers may know more than he should. Or at least that he has a separate agenda.

[JHyde]

(18-10-2011 06:23 PM)Naivety Wrote:  I was quite taken with Elena's reaction to Ilya being the only possible candidate for the attempted shooting. They seem to genuinely love each other. I'm starting to think that maybe Ilya and Elena are both victims of something even bigger.

Really interesting idea and not something I had considered. I have no idea where this Ilya/Elena/Harry thing is going and I am very happy about that.

[A Cousin]

(18-10-2011 06:23 PM)Naivety Wrote:  Yes I thought the puddle was poignant. Especially with Ruth trying to get Harry to 'reflect' on his reasons. I did worry about how they were going to get through the puddle though, and no one was leaving soggy footprints on that shiny floor!!

Don't you folks always keep your Wellies in the boots of your cars? I visited Holkham Beach once with a friend and her two children, and she had Wellies for everyone in the boot of her car - including me! She said she kept them there at all times. She might have been pulling my leg. But I suppose Erin running through the streets of London in Wellies is just not as cool as her impossibly high heels?

Good connection re: the puddle reflection. I hadn't though of that. Taken with "The Red Herring" and the shot of Harry and Coaver facing off in front of the window in silhouette, AKA both of them "in the dark" about each other, it illustrates Nalluri's brilliance as a director. I know I should feel like I have been hit over the head with the sledgehammer of symbolism. But I don't. He goes right up to the line of pastiche but doesn't cross it. Maybe balances on it for a bit.

In another completely unrelated thought, did anyone think that Coaver calling Harry "Hal" a direct reference to Prince Hal/Henry V? Not sure about it historically, but Shakespeare's Prince Hal was a loose cannon as a young man but the king he grew into was one of the most heroic. More notably, in the play, Henry V grapples with the moral burden of being King.

[beatrice4ruth]

"Hal", I had to laugh at that. I think that Jim Coaver was just being American. Americans love to shorten first names, at least in schools and in private life too. My favorite is "Mo" for Mohammed.

[A Cousin]

(19-10-2011 02:47 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  "Hal", I had to laugh at that. I think that Jim Coaver was just being American. Americans love to shorten first names, at least in schools and in private life too. My favorite is "Mo" for Mohammed.

Well, yeah - on the surface maybe. But I keep going back to his quoting of Wordsworth in 10.1 and then pretending he thought it was Springsteen. He knows it wasn't Springsteen. He was down-playing his knowledge. The guy clearly knows his English literature. Even if Coaver is doing it simply to highlight his familiarity with Harry, I still wonder if the writers were putting it in as another little Easter Egg? Lord knows there have been plenty this series.

[beatrice4ruth]

You might be right about the writers, but I wonder how many fans got the allusion. Obviously, I did not. I am just trying to follow the plot without thinking too much. Once I know the ending and I am no longer a nervous wreck, I will be able to concentrate on the symbolism, the insider jokes and the beautiful filming. It's great that you are able to watch the plot and get the deeper meaning of the writers. I wish I could!

[silverskater]

(19-10-2011 03:25 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  Once I know the ending and I am no longer a nervous wreck, I will be able to concentrate on the symbolism, the insider jokes and the beautiful filming. It's great that you are able to watch the plot and get the deeper meaning of the writers. I wish I could!

I completely agree with you - most of the symbolism goes over my head as well but now that it has been pointed out I will watch out for it second time around, although I did spot the Red Herring and am still wondering about the significance of the painting The Execution of Lady Jane Grey. Does it relate to Ruth and if so, in what way?

[neuro]

(19-10-2011 03:15 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  

(19-10-2011 02:47 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  "Hal", I had to laugh at that. I think that Jim Coaver was just being American. Americans love to shorten first names, at least in schools and in private life too. My favorite is "Mo" for Mohammed.

Well, yeah - on the surface maybe. But I keep going back to his quoting of Wordsworth in 10.1 and then pretending he thought it was Springsteen. He knows it wasn't Springsteen. He was down-playing his knowledge. The guy clearly knows his English literature. Even if Coaver is doing it simply to highlight his familiarity with Harry, I still wonder if the writers were putting it in as another little Easter Egg? Lord knows there have been plenty this series.

Yes an Don't forget that the CIA also recruit from top universities - there are references in the Jack Ryan books to this.

Nice spot so Harry was a bit of a wild boy in his youth then :-0

[DogSoSmall]

Spooks writers are masterful.

"Guilt is something I understand......jealousy too, it would seem"

For me, that one small sentence put right two and a half series-worth of misunderstanding. Genius.

A Cousin - I had exactly the same thought about Hal the Hero!!

Another thought. Hell hath no fury.......... You don't leave a passionate woman and her small child in a park and disappear with no explanation (ever, it would seem), without repurcussions. This is the woman who betrayed her country because of what happened to her parents. She clearly believes in revenge. Harry picked up a great deal of information from the conversation with Elena, that he engineered for that purpose.

Finally, I don't know who EndingHappy is, but he/she seems well-informed and no-one seems to have taken up this reassurance and been grateful for it! Well, Nicola Walker promised me that Spooks wouldn't make me cry (in a bad way!), and I believe her.