Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion

[beddah]

What a long, strange week it's been for spooks fans. All I can say is that I hope that Kudos can look at all of this extreme reaction and see it for what it is...a testament to just what an amazing, brilliant job they did creating something that people feel so passionately about...and ignore some of the more shrill aspects of the discourse. I admit to being a bit confused about the intense anger pointed towards the very people who gave us all the gift of spooks to begin with. But, bottom line, they created these characters that people identified with, loved and internalized and they should be exceptionally proud of that achievement. I will miss every slick, ridiculous, snarky, heart-breaking moment and feel quite sad for those who have let their disappointment ruin what should be a glorious farewell. Kudos never promised to make anyone happy...they promised to try their best to make good drama and I for one think they did for 10 solid series. I eagerly await seeing what they give us next...maybe, just maybe it'll be as smart, political and compelling as my beloved spooks. We can only hope.

[A Cousin]

(29-10-2011 06:13 PM)Silktie Wrote:  Why did Ilya specifically ask for Harry to be involved? Did he want to rub his perfect life in the man's face who got his wife to spy on him?

Maybe there is a some personal retribution going on there. But Ilya was one big, fat, stinking red herring. I also think that, in the end, we are supposed to take Ilya completely at his word via the HS - Ilya wanted Harry because Harry is "the best." Of course now we know he wasn't - Elena was. At least in so far as she had them both going for 30 years. Maybe she asked for him?

[harrbd]

I’m not sure I completely agree with the emotional state of Harry and Ruth in the H/R/S cliff top scene. Harry does spot Sasha and does see the danger. He tells Ruth to go back to the bunker. They both know that Sasha has killed people before. The fact that both Harry and Ruth try to take the blame for giving away the key indicates that they know that there is danger.

One of them should have cleverly shifted the death of Elena onto Ilya - no choice for Ilya, Elena knew that, she would prefer to die by her husbands hand than after torture in Russia etc. They loved each other –the best for Elena. Sasha would probably have collapsed in tears. Another person destroyed but it wouldn’t have been Ruth !

We didn’t need a wedding or soppy ending. We could still have had the next scene of the HS speaking to an emotionally drained Harry in the car saying “I’ve sorted the Albany and US problems, whatever you want to do I’ll support you” etc. Next scene Harry goes into office at night, puts stuff in brief case leaves. (Fans can make their own ending – is he leaving for good, is he going to carry on, is he going on the Grand European tour with Ruth etc.) Final scene – As he leaves Thames House Harry goes to the memorial, looks at all the names. (No Ruth Evershed !) CUT.

[A Cousin]

(30-10-2011 09:35 AM)harrbd Wrote:  I’m not sure I completely agree with the emotional state of Harry and Ruth in the H/R/S cliff top scene. Harry does spot Sasha and does see the danger. He tells Ruth to go back to the bunker. They both know that Sasha has killed people before. The fact that both Harry and Ruth try to take the blame for giving away the key indicates that they know that there is danger.

That's not what I was trying to say. Let's see if I can be clearer. It's not a lack recognition of the danger Sasha poses in that moment, it's they all three are not reacting as Spooks in that moment, they are reacting as Human Beings. The balance between the two is off b/c of the previous actions for all of them: Sasha witnessing his father kill his mother and Harry/Ruth finally acknowledging their feelings for each other, will wonders never cease, at the same time.

I totally respect the thought that "we" didn't need a soppy ending. Something like that would absolutely have hit me as insincere for Spooks.

But the only other ending that I could see packing the same thematic punch re: the end of Spooks (they heroically carry on despite their tragic personal sacrifices) is Harry dying. Because then Ruth would have to carry on without him. However, after re-reading all the pre-series promotional materials, it is clear to me anyway, that Harry is the intended center of S10 (and-his-tumultuous-relationship-with-Ruth-comes-to-a-head. *Intentionally in parenthesis*). If they both die, no one learns anything because they are dead. If they both live, all they learn is that they don't have to sacrifice everything to win, love conquers all, etc.

[beatrice4ruth]

To me the only final ending that made sense was the dying of Harry. Spooks would have ended without any ambiguity. Because Ruth became a better spy than Harry in the last two episodes, it would have been more logical for Ruth to live. We are left to believe that a distraught and burnout Harry can carry on and his judgment mistakes are forgiven because the love of his life died. How more soapy can that ending get?

[pennyfeather]

Excuse my ignorance but whats this trouble with Helen James Productions?

[Ceridwyn2]

Still seem to be having issues seeing posts beyond p31.

Interesting at how long this discussion has gone.

[Obsession]

I've finally just watched it after spending all week trying to stream it.

The tears rolled down my face in Ruth's last scene...

Nice touch on the list of fallen heros thou.

Am now listening to the soundtracks to comfort myself.

[Silktie]

(30-10-2011 03:42 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  To me the only final ending that made sense was the dying of Harry. Spooks would have ended without any ambiguity. Because Ruth became a better spy than Harry in the last two episodes, it would have been more logical for Ruth to live. We are left to believe that a distraught and burnout Harry can carry on and his judgment mistakes ae forgiven because the love of his life died. How more soapy can that ending get?

Actually I thought Harry was allowed to come back because he and his team had prevented the Russian ultra nationalist group from scuppering the partnership. I don't think they forgave him everything just because Ruth died.

Re Harry's state of mind and the mistakes he made this season, a lot of that is due to the emotional baggage he was carrying over the way he lied to Elena about her parents and his guilt about not having had contact with his son. When you think about it, he was still extremely effective where the threats of the week was concerned this season. He made the hard calls when Erin's daughter was in peril, etc. It was only where Elena and Sasha were concerned where he screwed up. And since he is now absolved of the guilt he carried around about them, I am comfortable that he is up to doing his job effectively once more.

[Callahan]

I take it that there will be no Series 10 Episode 7 then?

Such a shame, but I thought it was great to see Tom Quinn again, just a shame to not see more of him...